Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

Yes, you're quite right.

I think you missed my point.

I also suspect that the reason this thread is so surprising to some is that women have been largely 'staying quiet' for exactly the reasons suggested. For years. To avoid damaging shared goals.

So we've absorbed the 'domesticated zombie' slurs, noted people throwing around disgusting insults, but avoided calling anyone out.

I suppose it is a surprise to find out that people noticed all of that and that silence wasn't necessarily agreement.

This has often been an issue with the left.

'Why won't all these stupid racist fascists vote for us?'

Aim Number 2 is worth exploring further.

3 Nothing about us without us

Where are WPUK building consensus & canvassing to lay claim to a mandate on whatever they're asking to be involved in, as per this aim?

There was an earlier example of the spousal exit clause being 'offered up' as worth allowing it to be removed so that other aims could be achieved - without anyone thinking to seek or include women affected by this. So the nothing about us without us mantra seems misleading (assuming that it's WPUK who unilaterally declared the spousal exit clause unimportant enough to be used as a bargaining chip).

I agree that anything that impacts women has to involve women but women are stakeholders & representation should IMO be based on collective input & gathering a wide range of views/support. I don't see that happening.

So on what basis do WPUK have to determine their work is reflective of what women think/want/have knowledge & expertise in etc.?

Repealing the GRA isn't something WPUK will touch. Yet it's something that women are increasingly supportive of addressing.

So, on what basis do WPUK have a mandate to say 'this is what women want/need' beyond the small group working behind closed doors - where is seems women are also 'on the menu'?

I've clearly mixed up my numbers 🤦🏻‍♀️

Sapphos, you do have a nerve given what your attitude towards WPUK used to be. Why was it ok for you to criticise back then but not for other women to do so now?

Those who are happy to label others - transphobic, racist, far-right, and in so doing dismiss them, demonise them, other them, deny them full humanity, etc are usually doing it because they are punitive and cruel and need a target for their vengeance.

Abusers do it. Get themselves all worked up by their own imaginings, then feel perfectly justified in meting out the punishment that their target ‘deserves’.

That is exactly it.

EndlessTea, no this was a while ago.

I did look at one of her US ones, but stopped once she started criticising the current film for not having ordinary women in it and asking for donations for hers which will.

Can't stand this type of carping whoever it comes from.

I only noticed her started to crack when Suzanne Moore completely unnecessarily denounced her.

I think she's reacting more nowadays because the criticism she's been subjected to has been ridiculously OTT. It's not great to have these spats going on & it's hard to ignore. Especially when it's built up into a level of hysteria disproportionate to what's gone on & based on lots of misinformation/straight up lies.

I think she does better when she just ignores it all & just gets on with her own activism. Tbf I'd struggle not to react to what's been going on the past few weeks in her shoes.

I agree. I think she has held it together for so long, been generous- namechecking and complimenting her detractors on their good work. I don’t think many would have the strength to have pulled that off.

Why shouldn't PP react to all this bullshit?

It's not just about PP though. This faction think we are all racist.

Maybe they have got some traction with Labour by being publicly nasty to PP. If you are trying to get Lloyd Russell-Moyle to help you advance your aims in Brighton then I suppose this is the sort of proof you have to give in exchange. The Labour position seems to be that we are all racist until we have done enough denouncing to be taken off the guilty list.

They are all a bit mad.

WPUK organised meetings. That was useful at the time. I respectfully suggest their useful life is over and the meeting organisers opinions are nowhere near as useful as the meetings were. No one really needs them broadcasting this batshit "you're all racist" message. We have an Indian PM, we clearly aren't.

I think it is fair enough to react to it, but any content is less appealing if you do.

What’s the saying? “Never argue with idiots because bystanders won’t know the difference”.

Having said that, I don’t think I’d be able to pull off that level of self control.

So much for FWR being an echo chamber and a 'hive' mind.

Fucking brilliant.

On that same note, who can blame other women for criticising others then?

Women in the public eye in this debate have, as we all know, been subject to endless abuse, intimidation, doxxing etc.

They've all been under immense strain.

So why take it out on other women involved on the same side in the struggle rather than on the people doing the doxxing, threatening and so on? Are you suggesting that women just lash out blindly when under pressure?

I respectfully suggest their useful life is over and the meeting organisers opinions are nowhere near as useful as the meetings were. No one really needs them broadcasting this batshit "you're all racist" message.

I am about to say something controversial and I am braced to get flamed for it, but here goes.

WP and human shields.

When they were platforming all the fellas, I felt a lil bit uneasy about it. At the time, before any feminist could speak, everyone (maybe not Venice Allan!) would say a little prayer of ‘I believe in trans rights, dignity and safety, blah, blah’, then move on to the point.

All the transactivists would immediately jump on anyone to silence anyone for speaking truthfully and frankly, so this little prayer helped protect them.

WP took the protection to the next level, inviting onto the stage men who identify as trans. As a result WP could never be called ‘transphobic’. They had almost iron-clad protection from being denounced as baddies!

I am not going to lie here, even in my personal life, I have been able to get people who are resolutely not listening to me or other women about these issues, to watch WP videos or read words by these men.

It felt a little exploitative - I certainly was being so.

But this protection came at a cost for WP. They now had a debt of allegiance to pay.

That’s why I reckon they denounced the Morning Star cartoonist. Rather than entertain the possibility that the fellas had been used, they stabbed another woman in the back and shot themselves in the foot as a show of loyalty.

Now times have moved on and we no longer need to do a little ‘I’m not transphobic’ prayer before we get to speak.

Anyway, I can’t help wondering if WP are now employing human shields to protect themselves from accusations of racism and have a debt of allegiance to pay there?

How much of an influence does Brighton have in all this? Ali Ceesay is from Brighton. I think the chair was from Brighton — I'm sure someone told me that. The woman who stood up and accused the right of paying hundreds of thousands into GC legal funds was also from Brighton, according to the woman behind me on the way out. Someone just mentioned WPUK's attempt to work with Lloyd Russell-Moyle who's the MP for Brighton.

Are we talking about a tiny group of people living in one of the most woke and affluent areas of the UK who imagine their views are typical?

I don't think what you're saying about them platforming men like trans widows exes is controversial. A lot of us have been saying it for some time.

uncommongroundmedia.com/which-side-are-you-on-girls-trans-widows/

www.theargus.co.uk/news/19124788.amp/

Ali and Lloyd.

He's the MP.

But he's very pro trans, I thought?

That’s a great article. I think you and the other trans widows have done absolutely key work in shifting perceptions about how ‘benign’ and ‘reasonable’ these men actually are and about how ‘inclusive’ it is to give them a place in feminism.

It is the ‘using people’ bit that I think is controversial. Imo WP are now obsolescent because they have this debt, so they are unable to name men as men. The Overton window (much thanks to you among others) has been well and truly shifted, but WP are hobbled from shifting with it, because of this allegiance.

I wonder if they are hobbling themselves in the same way, by trying to fend off accusations of racism - of being a bunch of ‘White Feminists’ or ‘Karen’s’. Perhaps they now have a debt of allegiance to others who undermine their credibility, which could explain their hypocrisy.