Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

But WPUK was set up to challenge gender ideology, surely?

No SFW was set up to challenge gender ideology.

WPUK was set up to support women's rights.

'We started Woman’s Place UK in September 2017 to ensure women’s voices would be heard in the consultation on proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act.'

womansplaceuk.org/about/

I believe the aims subsequently widened out, but the intial impetus, as I read it, was certainly to challenge gender ideology:

'Our original 5 Demands

Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act to be allowed to take place and for women’s voices to be heard.

The principle of women-only spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended.

A review of how the exemptions in the Equality Act which allow or single sex services or requirements that only a woman can apply for a job (such as in a domestic violence refuge) are being applied in practice.

Government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces.

Government to consult on how self-declaration will impact upon data gathering – such as crime, employment, pay and health statistics – and monitoring of sex-based discrimination such as the gender pay gap.

Our experience in campaigning on these 5 demands has exposed the poor state of women’s rights in the UK. We have decided therefore to develop a broader campaign on the foundations we have built.

To this end we have identified a new set of demands:'

Some of the information shared has been quite shocking. Perhaps you feel that it does not reflect well on some of your extraordinary friends and that it should remain hidden from other "ordinary women" ?

This prompts a further observation from me (which is not an attack).

The left wing people that consider conservatives to be "racist scum" are very comfortable with that language don't think using that to describe millions of ordinary people as reflecting badly on them.

I have experienced it first hand with this group, everything is civil and constructive and supportive until someone with the wrong politics wanders into view and then the tone changes instantly: nasty abuse reflects very well on them with their political peers because the "racist scum" deserve it.

Hepwo, one of my personal red lines is anyone using the word 'scum' to describe another human being. I won't and can't tolerate it. Dehumanisation is unacceptable.

Angela Raynor's use of the word pretty much was the last nail in the coffin for me wrt Labour.

'not voting labour' doesn't make me 'right wing'. It just makes me politically homeless.

Agree. And the day after Angela said that a Tory minister was attacked in a park by someone who called him ‘scum’. Surprisingly, or not, the BBC did not note the connection.

So it's perfectly justifiable for Ali to behave this way towards someone with different views on hijabs and immigration such as PP (and me).

I had to step away from involvement with left wing feminists because if I had been honest about some moderate policy perspectives I would have been turned on in the way they turned on others.

I have worked mostly in more conservative professional environments and hadn't been exposed to this integration of abuse into professional behaviour. It's certainly brought my involvement with left wing feminists to a shuddering halt.

This is what WPUK stands for and this is what the WPUK representatives were upholding at Filia, a women's rights conference.

I can understand why women who are not feminists and who have a single issue interest in opposing gender ideology may clash with what WPUK stands for.

Who are we?
We are a group of women from a range of backgrounds including trade unions, women’s organisations, academia and the NHS. We are united by our belief that women’s hard won rights must be defended.
We started Woman’s Place UK in September 2017 to ensure women’s voices would be heard in the consultation on proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act.
Since then our campaign has evolved into a broader women’s rights campaign.
We want to ensure that
1 women’s voices are heard in all areas of public life
2 women’s rights are upheld in law and policy.
Our campaign resolutions or ‘wants’ are:
1 Women have a right to self-organise
2 An end to violence against women
3 Nothing about us without us
4 The law must work for women
5 Sex matters.

I can understand why women who are not feminists and who have a single issue interest in opposing gender ideology may clash with what WPUK stands for.

Since when did WPUK lay sole claim to the word/idea 'feminist'? I'm sorry, but that is just silly.

Feminist seems to mean different things to different people.

Emma Watson would consider herself a feminist but I'm not sure other feminists would agree.

I imagine that SFW/ KJK would be on board with 1, 3, 4 and 5. And what woman in her right mind would not be fully behind 2?

The difference would seem to be that KJK is taking a different, less ideological route to achieve pretty much the same aim. And she doesn't waste her time or create schisms by dissing other groups who are doing things differently.

she doesn't waste her time or create schisms by dissing other groups who are doing things differently.

Yes. This is the thing that strikes me.

I'm quite happy to support feminists (or women, or whatever) doing other things in other ways, with other politics, beliefs, etc.

The thing that bothers me is evangelising, denigrating, attacking or undermining other women.

That's unnecessary.

Lots of women involved are not socialists, or Labour supporters, or even on the left, or even feminists. Why does that bother anyone? Why should it?

The thing that bothers me is evangelising, denigrating, attacking or undermining other women.

There has been an awful lot of that on this thread aimed at the WPUK women, who are doing an amazing job imo.

I think most women here probably feel they are defending themselves, Sappho.

Anyway. To try and focus on the relevant issue:

Pragna Patel, in her video from the WPUK event, says that if one isn't on the left, one can't be a feminist.

This seems baldly untrue to me. It's an argument one could have, sure. But it's not an incontestable assertion.

Is this the whole crux of the matter? Are WPUK trying to ring-fence feminism for the left?

Mmmm…
I’ve seen WP (and WP endorsed) behaviour veering into “u okay hun?” territory.

Since WP are quite fond of denouncing women, it is troubling that they don’t seem to want to distance themselves from it.

Yes they have done good stuff, but they undermine themselves.

Some of the information shared has been quite shocking. Perhaps you feel that it does not reflect well on some of your extraordinary friends and that it should remain hidden from other "ordinary women" ?

This is quite important really.

Have we not learned from history, people can do extraordinary things and still hold views and make statements that means their work is overshadowed by those views.

I am sure a lot of things were said at Filia that some women don't 100% agree with.

I think the best thing in those cases is to respectfully agree to disagree and carry on fighting the patriarchy in the way that aligns with your principles.

For some women this will be supporting SFW and for others it will be supporting WPUK.

Also “she’s my mate” doesn’t wash with me at all.

Surely anyone with decent class analysis knows how it is possible for two people to have an entirely different experience with the same individual.

Yes. This is coming across as 'WPUK are free to criticise and impugn other women, but anyone criticising WPUK must be cast out/shut down/castigated'.

It's the double standards that are the problem. IMO

Well exactly.

And surely a woman who is firmly on the left and fiercely anti-racist will have a different take on the SFW events than a woman who is comfortable aligning with the far right.

But PP does spend quite a lot of time criticising other women's groups.

That's why I stopped watching her videos. I couldn't stand the regular digs at other women.

I think the public denouncements of the impure are off-putting by themselves. The double-standards just take it to another level.

comfortable aligning with the far right.

Who is this referring to?

I think it’s starting to get to her. She avoided that for ages. I don’t like it when it all becomes about spats.