Women's Place UK: Filia event: the elephant ignored yet again

[pattihews]

I attended the WPUK event at Filia yesterday and came out feeling disturbed by what struck me as a very heavy-handed event designed to avoid talking about the elephant in the room. For what it's worth, I've voted Labour at every election since 1979. I imagine 90% of the audience had a similar track record.

Put briefly, we had 90 minutes of:
Feminism=socialism and if you're not a socialist you can't be a feminist and if you're not a feminist-socialist you're the enemy.
The right is sly and will lie and try to draw you in (illustrated with a video from the US about the right-wing origins of many apparently liberal groups, including the Heritage Foundation) and you must resist any temptation to get involved with them.
The way to do it is to join unions and change them from within, hold socialist women's salons to recruit and inform and get involved at grass roots level.

There were also regular warnings about racism, which seemed odd and extraneous because WPUK is all about gender ideology.

And then the penny dropped. Though her name was never mentioned, I suddenly realised that the whole tightly-managed event (no talking unless you're holding the microphone) was a warning not to fraternise with Posie Parker.

At lunchtime I encountered several other women, all of them furious about what they'd sat through. Furious in particular because of course the elephant in the room was the fact that the Labour Party, to which WPUK is loyal to death, is the biggest threat to women's rights in this country. And they'd used PP to deflect from that.

I'm not a Posie fan. Posie's clear she's not a feminist. She says things that make me cringe. I have doubts about her motivation and we wouldn't be friends in RL. But I went to one of her events when she came to my area and she can mobilise women the left will never reach and for that she's important and valuable. When I go canvassing for Labour I meet working-class as well as middle-class women who vote or have voted Conservative. They include aspirational minority ethnic women. They have their reasons, and some of them I can understand.

A woman I've never seen before and may not see again joined my table for lunch and explained why so many women were feeling really disturbed. These are TRA tactics.
The huge issue that concerns so many of us (should we vote Labour?) was avoided and we were instead lectured on how to be good socialists and feminists.

Was anyone else there? What did you make of it?

So, I didn’t make that session (had a much needed lie-in) but knew that was what the message would be. But that’s just one group, one session and it just reflects the ideological and political background of that group of people. It’s not the whole of the women’s movement or more than just one session at Filia. I know there were people in the session who strongly disagreed with that approach too. And there were a lot of people at Filia wearing Adult Human Female t-shirts.

I think there is a place for everyone and we are a broad church with many focuses and that’s fine. I’m left wing but had a really good chat with someone who has moved to the Tory party for example. We agreed on some things and not on others.

I am right with you on the should we vote Labour question and spent quite a lot of time talking to the Labour Women’s Declaration crew because if we are going to end up with a Labour government because of the cluster fuck that the Tories are making, I think the question is how to get Keir to change.

It is one group, WorkingItOutAsIGo and their tactics have been called out. I think some reputations have been significantly damaged because of it too. Yet, I don't believe that KJK's reputation has been damaged any more than it was before the Brighton event.

Yes patti, These are TRA tactics. And the use of them has opened many people's eyes. And speaking of elephants, I think that now people's eyes are opened, they will not forget in a hurry either.

All groups are needed. As long as we all have our eyes open and acknowledge the differences.

I find it interesting though to read your post. It is like some groups need to stay in that zone of 'don't like those people' while other groups have said their piece and moved right on to getting back on track.

That’s extremely disappointing, especially in the wake of the recent cross-party alliance.
How can they dismiss Women like Baroness Nicholson?

At the moment it will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote Labour again, after a lifetime of it. I actually voted Con for the 1st time at our local election because the previous Lab MP (we’d never had anyone but Labour) was utterly useless and invisible, we have a specific local issue to do with a landfill site and the incoming Tory MP has been a godsend, he is highly visible and approachable.

I have no time for purity politics, it’s highly divisive and will put Women off in droves to be told they aren’t the ‘right’ kind of feminists.

I’m relieved to see it was a ‘fringe’ meeting.

I know it's just one group and one session, but it was the only session I attended over the three days that was tainted by a sense of disingenuousness. Given that WPUK was the first GC event I attended (years ago now) and was an organisation I admired, I was really gutted by yesterday's event. It completely ignored the huge issue for many of us, which is whether we vote Labour and risk erasing our sex-based rights and protections or not.

How disappointing when WPUK have done such good work. On the other hand, if the left are ever going to be convinced to see how regressive and anti women genderism is, an organisation like WPUK perhaps needs to remain “pure” to prove to their peers that being GC is not a left vs right issue.

If it's one group and one event then why on earth have you used the title that makes it sound as if the whole conference was tall about his? What are you hoping to achieve by smearing the whole conference ?

There are enough people looking to criticise Filia without giving them ammunition like this. You really should ask MNHQ to amend the title so it reflects your feelings about one workshop.

It wasn't a fringe meeting. Don't know where you got that from.

I guess the WPUK just made it absolutely clear that it's for Labour right or wrong and I had hoped for some nuance and open discussion, which they can't afford to allow.

I'm suppose I'm disappointed. The WPUK did a fabulous job to start with but it doesn't seem to have had any effect on Labour policy or the union movement. I'm not a Posie fan, I won't wear her merchandise and I want to keep her at arm's length. I can see the good and bad in both sides.

There are lots of women like me, reasonable, of the left, but not so dogmatic that we're prepared to give away women's sex-based rights.

I had no intention of smearing the conference, which I hugely enjoyed and which on another thread I've recommended to all. Just booked my accommodation for Glasgow. I put Filia in the title because that was where the event was held and only people who'd been there would know what I'm talking about.

So, Mrs Overton's Window, are we to assume you're a WPUK supporter? Because distracting from the subject in question by accusing me of smearing Filia seems like you're trying to deflect and shut down.

I want to make it clear to all that WPUK are perfectly entitled to hold their views. As is Posie Parker. And as I am, too.

No I'm not a WPUK supporter and I don't disagree with much of what you say. Just disappointed to see Filia name checked in the title like this after what was apparently an inspirational conference.

I think it would have put me off personally.
Telling you you have to be a certain sort of person to be a feminist and that you mustn't listen/associate with people from apparent other 'sides.'

If there's something that all of this has taught me it's to listen to anyone you are told not to.
Grown people can learn for themselves who they think is right or wrong and who they agree/disagree with.
I don't like this opinion that everyone needs to think the same and have distanced myself from the left because of this.
I can understand your disappointment OP.

God that's horrible- After the twitter backlash re class/head-gril accusations, I thought the likes of WPUK might reassess their treatment of the likes of PP- thought they might have an epiphany.

Obviously not: luxury politics well and truly at work.

I went to a large quaker summit thingy as a relative newbie a few years ago. I'd joined because I wanted something for my family to belong to that wasn't draconian about religion and welcomed the non- religious

The dickhead keynote speaker (male, private school educated, self-proclaimed anarchist- yawn) gave a speech denigrating atheists- it was horrible- I was so upset. He proudly relayed a story about evicting some people from his local group. He was vile and I do not believe he gave a shit about welcoming anyone to join- only the right people (the quakers are often bemoaning their inability to appeal to the working classes- well, go figure!)

And that's what WPUK remind me of- I question whether they actually care or if it's all about purity and appearance.

Something's bugging me: do you think many of these women have children, especially daughters? I can't believe any parent of a teenage daughter would be so cavalier. I think Sarah Ditum has a young daughter, but the penny may not have dropped yet. I'm just fed up of academic purists in their ivory towers belittling parents (yes, fathers as well as mothers). At least that's how it feels to me. I do find that those like Posey and Maya are way more authentic and that's because they're shit-scared for their daughters. I always hesitate to say this because it doesn't mean there aren't fabulous, authentic women who are child-free and fighting the fight- often they're lesbians so they have their own compelling reasons for doing so.

head girl 😁

I went to a WPUK meeting a few years back and they were firmly about affecting change from within both unions and the Labour Party. I asked what if that doesn't work though? It's the question they still don't like to consider.

I'd add that hoping to convince unions to be on the side of women seems extremely foolish to me, especially with all the revelations of them working with councils to keep women's pay low to guarantee bonuses for the men.

The political purity spiral in feminism is mad when we all have our “womanhood” in common. It’s divisive and undermines the fight we have on our hands. I really wish certain prominent individuals would just look more at what unites us than whether or not a person is a tory (or whatever). Because divided we fall and all that.

Funny really, the main reason many feminists won’t vote Labour is because of their TWAW stance. If WPUK could get that changed, many of their left-wing aspirations would naturally follow. The alternative route is to convince everyone to vote Labour without KS changing his approach, and guess what, that change will then never happen - where’s the political imperative?

I am a fan of PP - I think she does great work. Properly brave and not compromising. I have no doubt she would speak at aWPUK event if invited, and welcome any genuine questions put to her.

I can see value in working within organisations, even misogynistic ones resistant to change like most unions or the Labour Party. It is the only way to change them. The alternative is to set up alternative unions and join them and I do think that is important too. But WPUK need to be careful not to back themselves into a corner, gender ideology is an issue across the political spectrum.

I don't think that's very fair @MrsOvertonsWindow - I didn't read it like that at all. I think most of us know that Filia ≠ WPUK

I wasn't there @pattihews (sadly because I love Filia) but I'm not surprised. They have doubled down since getting a pasting on Twitter. It's like they have collective Stockholm syndrome - they can't bear to admit that the Labour Party and the unions have completely trampled on women's rights with gleeful abandon. In my long experience of leftist politics, there is a thread of misogyny running throughout. It's no coincidence there has never been a female party leader.

Most of the big players in the movement have this divide and conquer mentality so I’m not in the least bit surprised. I’m sick to death of the in-fighting and purity politics. I’m very much gender critical, and played a fairly active role at one point, but I simply can’t be bothered with the drama and bullshit. It’s embarrassing, frankly, and it expends a whole load of energy that could be better spent elsewhere. I’m loathe to say it because I hate that it’s true, but so much of it feels like a bunch of school girls who are bitching at each other for top spot. There’s zero nuance, and not overall real care for women and girls — your face has to fit first.

I think the title of the thread is very clear.

If WPUK could just concentrate on their stated chosen battleground (inside Labour and the Trade Unions) and stop attacking other women who have decided to take the fight in various other directions, that would be marvellous.

Would WPUK no-platform SFW if Filia (or another, similar event) chose to work with both?

My instinct says yes, WPUK would participate in no-platforming because current-day Labour seemingly cannot get a grip on it’s authoritarian speech-policing element. I’d love to be proven wrong on that, but as it stands, anyone on the left who is pro freedom of expression and pro freedom of association has either already left the party or is barely clinging on as the last flashes of optimism drain away.

Filia is the broad church/umbrella and shows the way things change.
The point is to have space in the room for the very large number of women who were wearing t-shirts from across the spectrum.
That there were a lot of women wearing KJK merch; there were Labour women’s declaration t-shirts, there were subtle and broader differences of approach in the discussions I went to. I met Quakers, Green Party members - personally I can no longer do either - but I also met a lot of women for whom either the deep dive into politics was a totally new country of for whom deliberating who to vote for for any change just isn’t an option / those living in dyed in the wool safe seats.
I would have welcomed a broader political lens that looked at how women take issues into where mainstream politics is now.
It is vitally important that WPUK and LWD are there to dismiss notions that the GC movement is a far right plot, but equally Stamding For Women has proved an important entry point into this debate.
Purity spiral v unsavoury bedfellows - neither will get the change we need but both do important consciousness raising.
I am going to embed myself firmly in the middle ground and pick the splinters out of my own arse.

I agree with the opening post.
WPUK have done loads of good work, but their behaviour over the last few months have left a sour taste in my mouth. In a way they are a victim of their own success, the movement has grown, they've lost control of the narrative and they hate it. And there's not much evidence that they've made much difference to Labour's attitude to women looking at Starmer's recent statements.
There's a radical feminism board on Facebook and they are obsessed with PP, seems to be all they post about. They sound like TRA's. All a bit weird.

pattihews. did they at least cover what their strategy was for getting change in Labour and the Unions? How they were recruiting other labour or active union members to speak up?

I was also in that session and it was - odd.
I was particularly annoyed by the speaker from NEU who talked about what good progress they had made with women's representation. This is the union which has guidance on affirming trans pupils written by Debbie Hayton.
I was also cross that a speaker from the floor was allowed to say - without a comment or correction from the panel - that all the crowdfunders for women's law cases must be funded by the far right because she didn't know anybody with any money.