Keir Starmer and misgendering

[Athenajm80]

I read something in Twitter that KS has said if he gets elected then he will make misgendering a crime. I was walking home so didn't read the whole article and typically can't find the tweet again.

I am confused about how that would work considering being GC is a protected belief in law. Has anyone heard more about this and can try to explain how it would work? Would he revoke GC being protected? Can he do that?

I have a name which could be male or female and get misgendered several times a week over email. This policy is an absolutely ludicrous idea and will be a waste of police time and/or impossible to enforce.

They could try but it would be unworkable, the courts/cells would be overrun, although I suppose the police could try scaring Women into accepting a caution.
Now that Rosie has come out publicly and said she will never call Izzard ‘she’, I’d say it was highly unlikely though. Would Starmer really turn her into a criminal?

He'll need a bigger prison.

This is what could keep the Tories in. I despair, I really do.

This isn't a Labour policy. Most of what you read on twitter is nonsense.

This isn't a Labour policy.
Most of what you read on twitter is nonsense.

Well I’m still waiting for him to explain how he’s going to ‘ modernise the GRA whilst still upholding womens rights to single sex spaces’. His words at the Pink news awards. If you think Labour are not going to bring in self ID you’re a fool.

I believe he said it at a Pink News conference.

Fuck knows what the man would do once in power, he hasn't the guts to say it and stand behind it, but that was rampant stupidity. Considering how totally fucked off the entire electorate is right now with politicians, he could blow power before even walking through the door of number 10 with such a bloody awful comment.

"I will criminalise people for not lying on command to placate a very small number of males desperate to control women".

Fuck off Kier. And take your out of touch raving looney party with you. The last thing this mess of a country needs is more arrogant, ridiculous twattery. Although if he pushes this, I suspect he will successfully smash any chance for the TQ+ population of this quietly settling down in any win-win way. He will force it to the point of women having no option but to shout from every rooftop the sex of the people involved.

Run the country? I wouldn't let that idiot run a lemonade stand.

This.

There are some who believe everything they read, this is getting like the Brexit vote all over again.

His speech at Pink News is available for everyone to watch.

Did he say he would make it a crime??

I wonder how it will work? How many genders exactly are there according to Stonewall 60 , 100, more. How are they going to monitor all those genders for misgendering and what about all those pronouns?

I know a lot of Twitter is bollocks, I'm not stupid 😁 I'm sure this was a Labour MP who said it, not Rosie D though.

Thanks for those saying it was in a Pink News talk, I'll have a look.

Here's the 'highlights' of what he said. Hate crime laws featured .. what does he mean? No idea, he never says what he means. Sounds a lot like Sturgeon though.
twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1582802682196406272

I have found quoted bits and it appears that he said he'd make "all LGBT hate crime an aggravated offence", so seemingly not as bad as reported, unless you look at recent arrests when TRAs have had their feelings hurt.

I do think hate crimes (actual abuse, violence, threats etc) should be treated very seriously, but a crime cause someone gets offended? That's not a hate crime to me. Sticks and stones and all that.

And here's an article from Joan Smith on his speech.
unherd.com/thepost/what-keir-starmer-told-pink-news-is-a-sign-of-things-to-come/

If we didn't have families to take care of think how much we could get done in prison in our free time? There would be whole wings of TERFs and we could radicalise the rest of the prison population to spread the word on release. How long in prison would I get for aggravated misgendering? As a first time offender would I need to do it to several people in order to ensure I get a prison sentence. Could I just do it online or would I need to do it in person? Gosh this is just so messed up (insert your own expletive).
Personally I will not use wrong sex pronouns or any of the other nonsense pronouns. I will happily use the person's new name. I think many of us probably would do the same. It is very easy to have a conversation in the presence of someone and not use pronouns. It is also fairly easy to write an email without pronouns by reordering sentences.

If Kier Starmer gets in I will continually misgender her.

I hope the posters who insisted this didn't happen have now read the links and are satisfied that it did, because what I'm interested in is the op's point:
'I am confused about how that would work'

As I understand it, an offence can be classed a hate crime - and thereby attract a harsher sentence - if it's judged that the motivation for that offence is hostility towards certain (but not all) protected characteristics. If that's correct then what are the implications? For example, I can forsee women being arrested during a protest, charged with a public order offence and then finding it used against them.

But I think the real impact will be felt far beyond this. Just putting the words 'misgendering' and 'crime' into the same sentence will have a silencing effect, deterring us from using clear language when we're talking about men in women's spaces and women's sport.

This, I suspect, is the desired intent and I think it's an absolutely chilling move. Back to 'No debate' just with a new haircut, and why some people are trying to minimise it I have no idea.

Barely legible brain dump coming, sorry in advance.

Would that be all pronouns no matter how esoteric or just transpeople? Is it a way to reinforce the status of youngish middle-class people who fancy being enby for a bit? Would everyone have to ask for the pronouns of everyone they meet and waste all their headspace on remembering pronouns of people they'll spend 30 seconds talking to? I barely pay attention to names, never mind pronouns.

If just trans then every transperson would have to present in a way that flags they are trans which wouldn't work anyway because apparently 'passing privilege' is vanishingly rare and generally involves extensive surgery (or really good filters and excellent photoshop skills). How could it be argued in a court of law that someone who a reasonable person would assume to be one sex should be referred to as another? Could women misgendered as they or he because they have short hair have the misgenderer recorded as committing a hate crime?

What about proof if no witnesses eg when 2 women in Cardiff were accused of threatening a male in women's toilets? Or with people who appear to be vexatious litigants from their history?

I've been told Starmer is intelligent and has a keen legal mind having been DPP but I'm finding it very, very hard to believe.

If he's unholding single sex spaces that's great. The Tories have thrown ours away.

I really think he doesn’t want to be elected. He surely cannot be entirely oblivious to the fact that a huge proportion of the electorate find this ridiculous.

Given that those who seem to subscribe to Gender Theory have no definitive explanation of what constitutes feeling like a man or a woman, how is it actually even possible to mis gender someone?

Using biological sex works as its black and white, clearly defined, and medically and scientifically supported. Gender is opinion, subscription to stereotype, and far too fluid to ever be pinned down enough to be measured in law.

From what I have read, it is thought that his "modernising the GRA" relates to him bringing in self-ID. The article posted from unherd.com discusses the problems with that Vs single sex spaces.

I know this is a pointless dream, but I would love politicians to actually say what they mean, no smoke and mirrors, just speak the truth as they see it and have the courage of their convictions.