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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hospital refuses to operate after woman requests all-female care

917 replies

Imnobody4 · 19/10/2022 17:06

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11316141/Hospital-bans-sex-assault-victim-op-female-care-request.html

I feel quite sick at this.

She was stunned then to receive an email from the hospital's chief executive Maxine Estop Green telling her the operation was off.

She told her the hospital 'did not share her beliefs' and she should make alternative arrangements for her surgery.

The message added the hospital was committed to protecting staff from what it described as 'unacceptable distress'.

Emma urged them to reconsider, adding in a further message she thought they had misunderstood her requests, which she said were entirely within the law.

The hospital said it would offer a private room but would NOT facilitate her requests for single-sex care after her operation.

It also mentioned her comment about pronouns and said it had a responsibility to protect staff from 'discrimination and harassment'.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Largofesse · 22/10/2022 12:34

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 10:30

I don't understand your reasoning. Did you even read it? Let's take some sentences from paragraph 5:

Her female relative had female only nursing after her surgery but she wanted a written guarantee for herself.

Right there, that's someone receiving female-only care. They can provide female-only care! Their former clientele aren't leaving because PGH employs male employees- they're leaving because they no longer trust PGH to be honest which employees are male!

Exactly. They can, of course, provide female only care and used to do so. They are not prepared to state in writing that this will exclude transwomen in that pool of human resource. I am convinced this will have been in the advice of SW Champions Scheme and also trans staff. Their rights of course excluding anyone who has good reason to be scared of men including those who ID as women.

CuriousEats · 22/10/2022 12:36

nilsmousehammer · 22/10/2022 10:02

Well it's appeared a number of times on FWR threads from those supporting TQ+ politics, look for threads where the subject will lead to females trying to argue for inclusive and accessible provisions. Lily Madigan was the name of the women's officer who went on the record on social media that religion and faith should be abandoned; plenty of screenshots on record of their work and statements during their time in post.

But mostly read the articles and the statements that come out from people like Stonewall and the big influential names with your eye in for why 'faith' is a word slipping in more and more. It's an identified target in that it's been noted as something a female may be able to get protected in court to be able to hold boundaries and have needs met that some male people would really like to be able to control and prevent.

😐Thanks for that. I'll keep my eyes out.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 12:39

Here's transwoman Montgomerie gaining the courage to push women of faith out of public life.

Hospital refuses to operate after woman  requests all-female care
nilsmousehammer · 22/10/2022 12:41

Over the years, the other side have NOT come up with any way of allowing women of faith to be full members of society. These days they have an answer: it is that women should leave their religions, or just that those religions are wrong. I haven't seen one of them show the slightest concern about these women.

Very well said.

For a female to leave her religion -

well first she is supposed to abandon her entire history, internal life, values, beliefs and way of thinking on the spot because someone with quite fantastic arrogance who feels that they are morally superior told her to

(If all your friends jumped off a cliff would you jump too?)

Anyone reminded yet of the Native Americans, indigenous people world wide, colonisation, the apologies still being made by someone with power, from a more powerful group, who arrived and said "you poor heathens have it all wrong, stop your life right now and live it in the same way I do as I tell you, or I shall make things difficult"

Then you get into the absolute naivety to what this means to women in real terms.

I mean if you knew anything at all and gave a toss about women in these situations you'd know:

This is looking to separate a woman from her family
friends
community
networks

Where is she supposed to go? Or to live?

What are the realities for a woman living in a strongly traditional family where this could lead to her losing her children? Being harmed? I've had friends and colleagues who were strongly supervised by male relatives who expected to know where they were at all times, who with, what for, and I saw what happened to them when they got out of line.

This is the reality for some women living in the UK.

It's so easy to toss out 'oh they should leave and go to a refuge' (yeah these are the women who won't now, or approach the groups, because they're full of males living their best lives) or 'they should leave their religions and beliefs and convert to mine ' - it's let them eat caking at its finest.

Helping these women is going to take decades , the strategies in place that were helping were things like female only groups. Spaces. Swims. Ways for these females to get into spaces where they were allowed to talk and be safe and to learn about their options. TQ+ politics, childish self centredness at its worst, has hurled this back into the dark ages, because those groups have been commandeered to provide validation for male people to bathe in. And those male people have no fucks to give about the harm they did to the females who actually needed them.

It's the lazy, naive bullshit of someone who likes the feelz of saying they're a socialist left person full of love and inclusive values, but is kidding themselves. Big time. While causing a fuckton of harm.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 12:52

I saw one religious woman post that realistically, she didn't think other men of her faith were going to keep part of their place of worship female-only. She thought that the way they'd balance the requirements of their faith and UK law would just be to mandate that women prayed at home and did not leave the house.

These trans activists claim to identify as women. They don't identify with women who see their worlds being made smaller and smaller.

LaughingPriest · 22/10/2022 13:41

I don't think we've mentioned Clare Dimyon's experiences yet in this thread - but there are definitely parallels.

Clare has an MBE for services to promoting the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. She is a sexual abuse survivor.

Over three years ago she asked her NHS hospital (in Brighton) if she could have a female HCP doing her mammogram.

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

Guess what happened? Did they say 'we'll see what we can do'?

Or did they publish her letter - private patient correspondence - within the NHS as an example of transphobia?

Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust published its new trans policy – and included the letter as an example of “highly discriminatory” correspondence from patients which should be referred to the hospital’s equality diversity and inclusion team.

Both her details and the fact that the letter was written in connection with an intimate procedure had been edited out.

LaughingPriest · 22/10/2022 13:43

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 12:39

Here's transwoman Montgomerie gaining the courage to push women of faith out of public life.

... who says... actually types out these words in some attempt to pretend they believe them... "you can believe what you want but don't start forcing it on others"... ?

If someone told Montgomerie this would it be highly offensive?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 14:02

Montgomerie's twitter timeline is the strongest evidence yet that it is impossible to die of irony poisoning.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 22/10/2022 14:17

LaughingPriest · 22/10/2022 13:41

I don't think we've mentioned Clare Dimyon's experiences yet in this thread - but there are definitely parallels.

Clare has an MBE for services to promoting the rights of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. She is a sexual abuse survivor.

Over three years ago she asked her NHS hospital (in Brighton) if she could have a female HCP doing her mammogram.

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

Guess what happened? Did they say 'we'll see what we can do'?

Or did they publish her letter - private patient correspondence - within the NHS as an example of transphobia?

Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust published its new trans policy – and included the letter as an example of “highly discriminatory” correspondence from patients which should be referred to the hospital’s equality diversity and inclusion team.

Both her details and the fact that the letter was written in connection with an intimate procedure had been edited out.

FFS even their apology is naval gazing fucking misogyny. I could not give a flying fuck what the health staff's fucking gender was. I don't have a gender identity so there's nothing a male can identify as which in any way aligns them with me more than every other walking talking man. People want same sex care FFS. Most people don't give a shit what someone's 'gender identity' is when it comes to healthcare, any more than they care about the rest of their fucking identities. They are so seeped in hatred for women they can't even see it. Not fit to be in any position of any power IMHO.

Faffertea · 22/10/2022 14:17

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
Montgomerie is either totally ingenuous or as thick as mince to not see the irony in what Montgomerie is saying.
Or perhaps both.
I guess though that as a male Montgomerie is used to seeing Montgomerie’s views and rights take precedence and isn’t used to having to consider others.

StrangeLookingParasite · 22/10/2022 14:30

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 12:39

Here's transwoman Montgomerie gaining the courage to push women of faith out of public life.

Oh dear, my irony meter just exploded.

Datun · 22/10/2022 14:42

We can't fuck this one up. This needs to be the court case that nails the hospital to the wall and costs them millions, so everyone knows this can't happen again. I'm ready with my spade.

Same. I've got a truckload of spades reserved just for this.

Because, in one aspect this is like sport. In that the whole country will agree.

Enough people go into hospital, enough women, to be outraged that you can be told they will do their best to provide female care, but that could easily mean males who demand to be included in that.

red4321 · 22/10/2022 15:34

Because, in one aspect this is like sport. In that the whole country will agree.

Not so much of a sport for those of us currently receiving treatment at PG though.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 22/10/2022 15:59

ZeldaFighter · 22/10/2022 11:38

The only media coverage is usually from deranged, unhinged conservatives banging on about transgender people in bathrooms.

Personally, left me completely cold - never listen to hateful right-wingers + don't really interact with trans people in real life or anyone in the toilets anyway really + didn't want to be a TERF (clearly akin to racist, bigot, homophobe, etc)

Lia Thomas did it for me! So obviously unfair, misogynistic and ridiculous. From there, I went to Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock and started to see a pattern. And bathrooms are just the start of the slippery slope - we need to address this as a society if a more tolerant society means more trans people in conflict with gender/sex separate spaces.

There is and never had been a need for spaces separated according to gender identity. If there was, we would need much more than 2 options.

There had been and remains need for sex segregated spaces.

People's sex is recognised at birth in every single case except very rare DSDs which are irrelevant to the trans arguments. People do not change sex.

Magenta82 · 22/10/2022 16:26

There is a really good article by Jean Hatchet in The Critic which sums up how I feel about this:

"The terrible realisation women need to face as a result of this case is that we are now in a world where large institutions, healthcare providers and others including our politicians, believe that men are now women and have the right to touch your body or allow you to die if you won’t let them.

Over my dead body."

thecritic.co.uk/over-my-dead-body/#

nilsmousehammer · 22/10/2022 16:34

The patient’s distress at potentially having her body handled by a man is dismissed in favour of his supposed “right” to handle her. Why would a man be distressed by a female sexual violence survivor saying no to him? Wouldn’t any reasonable man try to understand this? Of course, he would, but transgender activists and the men they enable are not reasonable or honourable men.

That. In a nutshell. Bloody well said, Jean.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 16:41

Now that PGH is in the news, I have come across a woman whose clitoris was crushed during an operation on her hip at PGH. The surgeon and hospital say it was a risk she consented to take. She says no-one ever said the loss.of sexual function was a possibility, and she would not have had the procedure if she'd known.

twitter thread

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 16:52

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 16:41

Now that PGH is in the news, I have come across a woman whose clitoris was crushed during an operation on her hip at PGH. The surgeon and hospital say it was a risk she consented to take. She says no-one ever said the loss.of sexual function was a possibility, and she would not have had the procedure if she'd known.

twitter thread

If you find twitter threads bloody awkward, here is the story through the medium of a newspaper.

Extract from Telegraph

Julie was told that a hip arthroscopy operation was the best solution and signed up to have the procedure carried out privately that February.

The surgeon makes up to four small incisions along the front of the hip and is able to perform keyhole surgery inside the joint, identifying and correcting the problems by effectively shaving away the fragments of bone which are catching on each other.

The operation is fairly common and has an 81 per cent rate of success, according to American research in the 2016 Journal of Hip Preservation Surgery, with most people seeing a reduction in pain within six months. But for Julie, the surgery did not signal a fresh start. The operation, she says, “castrated” her.

Part of the problem was that to open up the hip joint so that a surgeon can operate, a piece of equipment called a perineal post had to be placed between the legs, which effectively crushed her genital tissue. None of the hospital literature mentioned it, Julie says, and neither did the surgeon.

However, the pain she felt after the operation, especially to the clitoral region, was “absolutely excruciating”, and worried Julie immediately.

She says: “When the surgeon visited my bedside, I asked him why I was in so much pain in that area. “There was no reassurance, no explanation. He aggressively said: ‘I told you there would be bruising’. I was so shocked and taken back I didn’t say anything. He hadn’t told me this at all.” It took a few months for the bruising and the pain to fade, and Julie started to feel normal.

She says: “Having been single for 10 years, I knew my own body very well. I had always reached orgasm via my clitoris. But I soon realised something was wrong.”

It took Julie two years of online research to find the reason for the damage. She discovered a number of medical reports that recognised the post was known to cause damage to the pudendal nerve. Among them, published in 2013, was a review that revealed that two per cent of patients reported damage, with twice as many women as men affected.

Julie says: “I felt sick. I discovered the pudendal nerve carries sexual sensation from the clitoris. I felt violated.

“I’ve learned since I was at high risk of this type of damage because the muscles in my groin were so short and tight due to the impingement, and the surgeon must have known that and should have warned me.”

Julie has been left devastated. An independent expert agreed she should have been warned of the known risks, but no action has ever been taken against the surgeon and he does not accept he did anything wrong. However, many recent medical articles about nerve damage caused by perineal posts recommend that surgeons alert patients to dangers, including pudendal nerve injury, and sexual and urinary dysfunction.

Telegraph

LightningStriked · 22/10/2022 17:26

She's being interviewed on GB news right now. Debbie Hayton also.

LightningStriked · 22/10/2022 17:29

Peter Thatchell now. "We all have a gender identity".

FirstandLastBorn · 22/10/2022 17:30

The interview is a mess. The presenter doesn't seem on it and she's not following through on questions.

Moonatics · 22/10/2022 17:39

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/10/2022 16:52

If you find twitter threads bloody awkward, here is the story through the medium of a newspaper.

Extract from Telegraph

Julie was told that a hip arthroscopy operation was the best solution and signed up to have the procedure carried out privately that February.

The surgeon makes up to four small incisions along the front of the hip and is able to perform keyhole surgery inside the joint, identifying and correcting the problems by effectively shaving away the fragments of bone which are catching on each other.

The operation is fairly common and has an 81 per cent rate of success, according to American research in the 2016 Journal of Hip Preservation Surgery, with most people seeing a reduction in pain within six months. But for Julie, the surgery did not signal a fresh start. The operation, she says, “castrated” her.

Part of the problem was that to open up the hip joint so that a surgeon can operate, a piece of equipment called a perineal post had to be placed between the legs, which effectively crushed her genital tissue. None of the hospital literature mentioned it, Julie says, and neither did the surgeon.

However, the pain she felt after the operation, especially to the clitoral region, was “absolutely excruciating”, and worried Julie immediately.

She says: “When the surgeon visited my bedside, I asked him why I was in so much pain in that area. “There was no reassurance, no explanation. He aggressively said: ‘I told you there would be bruising’. I was so shocked and taken back I didn’t say anything. He hadn’t told me this at all.” It took a few months for the bruising and the pain to fade, and Julie started to feel normal.

She says: “Having been single for 10 years, I knew my own body very well. I had always reached orgasm via my clitoris. But I soon realised something was wrong.”

It took Julie two years of online research to find the reason for the damage. She discovered a number of medical reports that recognised the post was known to cause damage to the pudendal nerve. Among them, published in 2013, was a review that revealed that two per cent of patients reported damage, with twice as many women as men affected.

Julie says: “I felt sick. I discovered the pudendal nerve carries sexual sensation from the clitoris. I felt violated.

“I’ve learned since I was at high risk of this type of damage because the muscles in my groin were so short and tight due to the impingement, and the surgeon must have known that and should have warned me.”

Julie has been left devastated. An independent expert agreed she should have been warned of the known risks, but no action has ever been taken against the surgeon and he does not accept he did anything wrong. However, many recent medical articles about nerve damage caused by perineal posts recommend that surgeons alert patients to dangers, including pudendal nerve injury, and sexual and urinary dysfunction.

Telegraph

So I read this, and other stories like it and follow maya and allison etc etc and the first thought that comes to mind is
We have to learn absolutely everything about anything. We cannot rely on even a dr telling the truth. If we are due some procedure or process, we somehow as well as all the drudge work and jobs and childcare and elderly care also now have to research every tiny thing. I mean who has the time, who's educated enough, why in fact do we bother with drs and surgeons, we might as well learn how to do the operations on ourselves. At least then we will know any related problems are on us. No point putting surgeons through the training, paying surgeons all that money, and then they dont take responsibility when it matters.

Yes I'm being facetious, but blimey what a terrible outcome.

nilsmousehammer · 22/10/2022 18:07

LightningStriked · 22/10/2022 17:29

Peter Thatchell now. "We all have a gender identity".

In the same that we 'all have a soul'.

That's your belief Pete. Not mine.

KittenKong · 22/10/2022 18:25

My atheist dad didn’t believe in souls. He knew what sex was thought.

ApocalipstickNow · 22/10/2022 18:31

LightningStriked · 22/10/2022 17:29

Peter Thatchell now. "We all have a gender identity".

We don’t, Pete.

im not even convinced we all have a personality, mate.