I'm not a woman - which facilities should I use

[Whatiswrongwithmyknee]

Genuinely interested to hear what supporters of gender ideology would recommend here. I am biologically female but do not identify as a woman. I am officially trans though in reality I don't think I am the sort of person Stonewall meant to refer to in their definition of trans (I am gender critical - which for those who have been misled by some made-up definitions, to me means that sometimes sex, rather than gender, matters. It is not an anti-trans stance).

The question is - which facilities should I use? I should not be in the ladies if that is defined by identity but using the men's does not feel right either. How do gender ideologists suggest I negotiate this?

How do we tell the difference between a predatory man, a harmless man, a predatory trans woman, and a harmless trans woman?

The only thing we can actually see is that they are all male, and therefore statistically more likely to harm us than female people.

Given you are a woman and no threat to anyone use whichever ones you like.

It's men in our spaces we have an issue with. Because they are male. Not because they are / are not trans.

Surely it doesn't matter what you identify as in this situation. You're female. If, God forbid, something terrible happened to you the police would identify you as 'a female'. If you needed medical care such as gynaecology you'd be treated according to your female body and so on. Your sex is female. Use the female facility and stop using Stonewall definitions to identify you.

This.

Identify in any way you wish, but biologically you are female and should use the women's facilities.

You can copy with your body's femaleness enough to carry and give birth to two babies (the most female of all actions) - how is it hard to accept it enough to use a woman's loo? I honestly don't know how you find this a problem.

It's men in our spaces we have an issue with. Because they are male. Not because they are / are not trans.

Exactly!

A secondary school near us is putting in thirty individual cubicles - all fully enclosed, lockable, with sinks and sanitary disposal units inside - to be used by all students. This seems a sensible plan to me.

All toilets should be like this in my opinion, I hate the communal loos with inadequate cubicles. We should all be entitled to privacy.

I'm not assuming a transwomen is a threat. I'm assuming all male born people are a threat. Being a transwomen doesn't change the fact that 98% of sexual assaults are committed by male bodied people.

How can safety only ever be considered in terms of transwomen. So they are at risk from the men in the mens but women afraid of the same men being allowed into the women's are bigots?

So men are dangerous but only to transwomen?

Or being wary if males is unnecessary?

Which is it?

You won't find many gender ideologists on here.

I would say use a gender-neutral toilet where available (though I strongly feel these should be lockable individual toilet cubicles with basins etc inside) and ladies where not available.

I don't think most women consider whether the person using the toilet next to them is male or female unless they are evidently biologically male (which won't be the case here).

You can't "focus on predatory men" in public spaces, how does anyone know which are the predatory and which aren't? that's why in such situations we have safe guarding in place and same SEX spaces.

@FemaleAndLearning - I’m baffled, I had a look at that website, and the whole point of the program is the following:

“This dedicated career development opportunity aims to address the lack of women in technical leadership positions across the sector..”

and yet it is open to ANYONE who identifies as female.

@ThrowingSomeCrumbs - presumably he wants to be seen as a man, and you say looks like a man, so will want to use the men’s loos? Obviously, would need to use a cubicle.

If the same trans-man came into the ladies loos saying that they had been harassed or made to feel awful by another man in the male loos, I would probably leave them to use our loos, and go and get security if wanted etc.

But you and I both know your “friend” is a red herring. And has nothing to do with women who are still women but consider themselves agendered, or non-binary.

Unless using women’s loos is somehow triggering, I don’t understand why females would want yet another kind of loo to use, if no one else can tell the difference.

This reminds me so much of the white academic who got into black spaces and even when finally called on it, insisted she was whoever she choose to be (“identified as”). That was clearly ridiculous, and insulting to WOC. Why do women have to accept everything that men want, without demure, because they have truly honestly realised they identify as women too…? because they are still being patriarchal.

When was the last time you heard of any man asking a woman what it felt like to be a woman in their quest for self-discovery? Never, that’s when. Absolutely no interest in the female perspective, only their own interpretation of being a woman. Which is the most reductive crap I’ve ever heard.

It doesn’t matter what you identify as you are a female. You cannot change sex and that is a scientific fact. Use the ladies.

Rape & sexual assault is not an unreal threat.
Men who enter the ladies toilets are more likely to rape women in the ladies toilets than men who never enter them.
You can't be one of the men who sexually assaults a woman in the ladies toilets if you don't enter them.

A man who says he thinks he isn't a man is just as likely to be a rapist as any other male, because gender cultists commit crimes the way their birth sex do, not the way they say they identify.

No, I do not consent to validating some blokes desire to invade female spaces & I will never support a business who throw women under the bus like that.

You don't get to tell women that you think some made up ideology that says gender is valid means they have to share with men.

No one gives a shit about masculine presenting women in women's toilets. Or they didn't until LARPing men started invading women's spaces and making women nervous about who might be trying to sneak in.

Hear, hear.

Males are a threat to females, I think statistics show this. The majority of attacks are committed by males. A woman's toilet should be a safe space for women. Not for men.

Agree - women are not a protective shield for men.

Let men sort the problem of male violence against other men. Women have enough to cope with regarding male violence against women and children.

We can't tell which men are predators - they need to ALL stay out of women's spaces.

If you using the women's loos is triggering for you, use the men's. You claim you are a male. Use that, then. If you don't want to, have a think about why that might be.

As a biological woman you use the facilities you feel the safest in. The use of women's safe spaces are within your sex based rights, which remain unchanged no matter how you present or identify. No woman / female would expect you to use the gents just because you perhaps dress neutral and use they them pronouns.

The good guys keep out so the bad guys stand out.

So……if you don’t want to identify as a male and you were born a female, why wouldn’t you just use the woman’s ? Or are you just feeling pedantic ?

This just sounds like the result of overthinking. You are female. You use the toilets for females. That's it. I'm also not sure that you'll find answers from 'genderists' here if that's what you were looking for.

I find all of this navel gazing pretty annoying and offensive. It's the modern day version of "I'm not like other women". It assumes that most women have a female or feminine gender identity and that you are different if you don't. It smacks of thinking that you're not like all of those other boring, 2D women who identify with the stereotypes applied to them. How offensive is that? It's the same misogynistic bullshit I've heard my entire life wrapped up in a lovely, progressive rainbow.

I also don't understand your comment about agenderism being a refusal to allow your sexed body define you, and then asking a poster what is feels like to identify as a woman. Do you think that all women who don't define themselves as agender or male must therefore identify as women? And that we allow our sexed bodies to define us? I'm really surprised that anybody would jump to those conclusions. It comes across as being totally wrapped up in yourself and having no understanding of other people at all. I don't even believe in the messed up concept of gender, so I don't define myself that way. I have a biological sex and then my personality is a complex mix of things, just like everybody else. By your reckoning, I would be agender. But I just see myself as an average woman, the same as most others.

I can't help but think that your opinions actually mirror those held by the majority of people. Most of the women in the female toilets are not milling around outside, wondering whether their gender identity matches the toilets they are going to use and what message it will send to other people. They know that they are women and use the corresponding toilets. Their likes/dislikes/personality traits (or whatever other traits are used to determine your gender) don't come into it. I don't understand why you think you are so unusual and need to consider this.

How about this?

"Male toilets" are for SCARY people. And "female toilets" are for SCARED people 😉

If you are biologically female but now look scary then you go into the male toilet. If you don't look scary yet but are scared, female toilet it is.
If you are biologically male and still look scary to women, you need to use the male toilet

You are a women so you use the women's toilets.

We don't get to identify out of biology. It's just the way it is.

Women can do whatever they like, wear whatever they like, date whatever consenting adult they like. Our sex only defines us if we allow regressive stereotypes to let that happen.

If you are a biological male and are scared in the men's loo, that is a men's problem. Women aren't human shields.

All toilets should be like this in my opinion, I hate the communal loos with inadequate cubicles. We should all be entitled to privacy.

@ancientgran of course!!! 🤦🏻‍♀️ but there is no space!!!! Space is money!!! Toilets would have to take 3 times more floor space!!! EVERYWHERE! Not going to happen

I meant to add, male privilege by birth means that the female to male issues are very different to the male to female issues. In turn the female to neutral are very different to male to neutral. Don't let anyone gaslight you into accepting otherwise and don't let a label define you.

These posts give me rage. None of us identified into our oppression. Why not acknowledge that our gender oppression is unfair and wrong instead of claiming special status?

We're all non-binary when it comes to gender because the gender binary is utter made up bollox. So use the ladies as is appropriate with your biology.