Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2

1000 replies

ResisterRex · 06/10/2022 05:55

The first thread, towards the end of which there was a discussion about having a second thread but it wasn't added:

Mermaids being investigated by the charity commission
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4644323-mermaids-being-investigated-by-the-charity-commissionn_

There's been a new development so maybe a second thread would be useful:

Lottery pauses trans charity cash during investigation

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c959a286-44e4-11ed-8885-043c27446b97?shareToken=6d482edb1a386656502f33453da5c230

OP posts:
Thread gallery
117
RedToothBrush · 09/10/2022 08:56

The only moral panic that has been stirred up has been the one against JKR and the GC movement. NOT the other way around.

The characteristics of a moral panic are not demonstrated by the GC movement, precisely because of the conditions its had to navigate in.

Moral panic is defined as a public mass movement, based on false or exaggerated perceptions or information that exceeds the actual threat society is facing. Moral panic is a widespread fear and often an irrational threat to society's values, interests, and safety.

Key point: irrationality and disproportionality.

The gender critical movement has at every point been force to demonstrate and quantify issues to illustrate its point. At times this isnt easy because of the deliberate obstruction of getting research done in this climate. Where it has been done it only serves to demonstrate real issues that are being overlooked: comorbidity, disproportionate over representation of particular groups who are already at risk, higher rates of crimes, over representation in adults who pose higher risk, patterns which replicate other scandals, lack of ethical practice, lack of oversight on safety, lack of protection of vulnerable groups, patterns of group contagion, lack of understanding on basic safeguarding.

This demonstrates there isn't irrationality or disproportionality going on.

On the flip to that the TRA side pushes narratives that firmly go against known research: the suicidal intent (with no thought to comorbidity or whether transition reduces risk), the risk of murder (the whole conflating south America deliberately whilst ignoring risk profiles of women and over representation of serious offenders presenting as trans) and the entire premise of hate crime and the narrative that to be pro-woman you are actually anti-trans which isn't the case.

This is very firmly a weaponisation of the nature of moral panics against safeguarding, to undermine safeguarding and women's rights. It understands that woman tend to be left out of power which is punching down on this and those who are involved in it are more susceptible to the emotional whipping up of be kind over logic and critical thought. Social media has pushed politics of all kinds down this route of emotion over rationality and this has been identified as a real problem for our age across the board with many suggesting in other areas of politics this has been a very deliberate strategy employed by a tiny minority with certain agendas which would normally otherwise go against the public interests on a much wider level.

It is the Brexit effect. It is the Trump effect. It is the Bolsonaro effect. We see it replicated. Its powerful and influencial males who are seeking financial reward and power over the public in a way that will harm them by deliberate disinformation.

If you put the tra movement into context with wider political trends you would expect to find a top down effect with a small number of influential males leading it.

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 09:49

Stylist Magazine still shilling for Mermaids! 🤦‍♀️

I hope Mermaids do report complaints about their behaviour as hate crime - last time they instigated a the legal process we found out about Breslow. Be fascinating to see if the police poking around their gaff ended up Jussie Smolletting on them.

www.stylist.co.uk/news/mermaids-transphobia-abuse/716424

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
nilsmousehammer · 09/10/2022 10:06

'Moral panic' is one of the deflector shield buzzwords pulled out to try and manipulate the gullible.

Anyone who hasn't noticed how very often this is trotted out when there's difficult questions to answer hasn't yet had the chance to read enough on the subject.

Let's add it to the other manipulative words (many of which were directly recommended to use in the manifesto discussed in the Dr Em tweets above from 2018):

Emotive words with which to sway the public against people with opinions that mess with your aims:

old
prudish
out of touch
right wing
Catholic/Christian
silly
pearl clutchy
moral panic
hysteria

emotive words to encourage the thinking that helps the aims:

sex positive
progressive
modern
up to date
brave
celebrating individuality
bodily autonomy

It's long past time to wake up to the sales techniques.

nilsmousehammer · 09/10/2022 10:07

Directly from the manifesto discussed in the Dr Em Tweets:

"'Turn the tables and use emotional language to label your enemies. Words like “intolerant”, “childish”, “ageist”, “backwards” , “bigoted” , “prejudiced” , “ignorant” , “hateful”, “hypocritical”, “oppressive”, “maniacal”, “stone age” and similar paint a vivid mental picture. Present your opinion as “common-sense”, “modern”, “21st-century”, “progressive”,”love-affirming” “compassionate”, “provocative”, “liberating” and the like."

Planned. All of it.

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 10:18

bodily autonomy

This one is my pet peeve. Children don’t have bodily autonomy- it’s why they can’t smoke, drink, get a tattoo or a piercing and why we have an age threshold for legal sexual consent.

you can’t even sign up for the junior sessions at my gym (ages 12-16) without your mum/dad doing the paperwork and showing both sets of photo ID.

I had to show my passport and my daughter’s birth certificate to get her ears pierced!

anyone who has ever has to get a necessary medication into a recalcitrant toddler instinctively knows this.

Datun · 09/10/2022 10:19

nilsmousehammer · 09/10/2022 10:07

Directly from the manifesto discussed in the Dr Em Tweets:

"'Turn the tables and use emotional language to label your enemies. Words like “intolerant”, “childish”, “ageist”, “backwards” , “bigoted” , “prejudiced” , “ignorant” , “hateful”, “hypocritical”, “oppressive”, “maniacal”, “stone age” and similar paint a vivid mental picture. Present your opinion as “common-sense”, “modern”, “21st-century”, “progressive”,”love-affirming” “compassionate”, “provocative”, “liberating” and the like."

Planned. All of it.

It's powerful isn't it.

AlisonDonut · 09/10/2022 10:41

PrincessButtercupToo · 08/10/2022 23:28

I’ve been quite severely insulted on here before for pointing out the link between paedophilia and encouragement of puberty blockers, and am very much on the GC side of these discussions, but even I am quite shocked at how easily someone with these views was welcomed into the heart of the charity who at a minimum pretend they aren’t driven by facilitating paedophiles.

Just insulted?

People have been banned for pointing out the links between the tactics of the two.

RedToothBrush · 09/10/2022 10:45

nilsmousehammer · 09/10/2022 10:07

Directly from the manifesto discussed in the Dr Em Tweets:

"'Turn the tables and use emotional language to label your enemies. Words like “intolerant”, “childish”, “ageist”, “backwards” , “bigoted” , “prejudiced” , “ignorant” , “hateful”, “hypocritical”, “oppressive”, “maniacal”, “stone age” and similar paint a vivid mental picture. Present your opinion as “common-sense”, “modern”, “21st-century”, “progressive”,”love-affirming” “compassionate”, “provocative”, “liberating” and the like."

Planned. All of it.

Emotive words.

Appeals to emotion. Always be aware of them and how that affects your thinking. Dig down and question with your rational too. Train yourself to do it and not get swept up in waves of emotional outrage. Focus emotional outrage using rational and its more effective as truth shines through.

The liberal consensus movement based on evidence and balanced interests is struggling across the board to deal with the change in communication technology.

There is historical precidence. We saw huge political unheaval and unrest when the printing press changed power dynamics. Until it was better understood and managed it caused massive social issues and indeed wars.

There have been warnings about its effects since at least the early 90s.

Instead of protecting the public against it, i think powerful political groups have employed the tactics for their own benefits.

Its fascinating and terrorifying to see unfolding.

Control of social media is a huge area of concern. It's not giving power to the masses in the way many thought. It's concentrating power into an elite who own social media.

MN stands out uniquely. Why has the GC movement been on MN.

Elon Musks twitter takeover is an enormous thing which is being vastly understated.

TheBiologyStupid · 09/10/2022 10:45

Not sure what happened there! The archive link is: web.archive.org/web/20221009093917/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/09/scandal-trans-charity-mermaids-warning-us/

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 10:52

MN stands out uniquely. Why has the GC movement been on MN.

Elon Musks twitter takeover is an enormous thing which is being vastly understated.

Definitely.

I know a lot of casual onlookers are bewildered by the Mumsnetters defence of Kiwi Farms but when you’ve been trying to save kids from bad actors and gotten banned from all over for your troubles, you really do learn the value in a website (and a site owner) willing to stand up for freedom of expression in an increasingly authoritarian and censorious world.

TheBiologyStupid · 09/10/2022 10:56

Not sure what is happening to the archive link between it appearing in preview and on the page itself - I've not had the problem before.
web.archive.org/web/20221009093917/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/10/09/scandal-trans-charity-mermaids-warning-us/

ResisterRex · 09/10/2022 11:17

You can access the Telegraph opinion piece here as well

twitter.com/annmsinnott/status/1579016617220255747?s=46&t=Rn8Zua9tarmriSJcMubCdw

OP posts:
deepwatersolo · 09/10/2022 11:55

Thanks for the link. Good read, finally stating the obvious.

Why did Mermaids sue the LGB Alliance in the first place? I must have missed that.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 09/10/2022 12:00

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 10:18

bodily autonomy

This one is my pet peeve. Children don’t have bodily autonomy- it’s why they can’t smoke, drink, get a tattoo or a piercing and why we have an age threshold for legal sexual consent.

you can’t even sign up for the junior sessions at my gym (ages 12-16) without your mum/dad doing the paperwork and showing both sets of photo ID.

I had to show my passport and my daughter’s birth certificate to get her ears pierced!

anyone who has ever has to get a necessary medication into a recalcitrant toddler instinctively knows this.

But the whole point is that the QT / trans "movement" is about bodily autonomy for children. How is a four year old supposed to consent to sex with an adult if not given bodily autonomy?

ScreamingMeMe · 09/10/2022 12:02

Darren Mew, Mermaids' Digital Engagement Officer

twitter.com/brettg1974/status/1579035933399085057?t=VX_qyGl2G2E9g9lAq0SsbA&s=19

ScreamingMeMe · 09/10/2022 12:05

twitter.com/MMMMeowwwwwww/status/1579056220128030720?t=BJc53QVnv7_nAz1w1sfrAw&s=19

"Ah I knew I recognised the name—Mew wrote @mermaids_gender ‘s appalling “Single-sex spaces: know your rights—A helpsheet for young trans ppl” to contradict the @EHRC guidance
Mew’s first suggestion to males challenged in female spaces is that they ring 999"

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/single-se…

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
ScreamingMeMe · 09/10/2022 12:06

Sorry, that link at the end didn't copy properly

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/single-sex-spaces-know-your-rights/

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 12:14

deepwatersolo · 09/10/2022 11:55

Thanks for the link. Good read, finally stating the obvious.

Why did Mermaids sue the LGB Alliance in the first place? I must have missed that.

I presume LOLy-On’s Trans Advisory Board at The Good Law Project first decided to try and shut LGB Alliance down, and then inexplicably decided Mermaids was the best vehicle to do that (other LGBT and T charities ‘supported’ the case).

One of the people on the advisory group is a MermaidsMum
goodlawproject.org/update/advisory-group-transgender/

CN Lester is one of those TRAs that uses fear to drive division and anger.

inews.co.uk/essentials/every-fascist-movement-needs-scapegoats-transgender-people-perfect-target-69711

Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
Mermaids being investigated by the Charity Commission - thread 2
ChristinaXYZ · 09/10/2022 12:15

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 09:49

Stylist Magazine still shilling for Mermaids! 🤦‍♀️

I hope Mermaids do report complaints about their behaviour as hate crime - last time they instigated a the legal process we found out about Breslow. Be fascinating to see if the police poking around their gaff ended up Jussie Smolletting on them.

www.stylist.co.uk/news/mermaids-transphobia-abuse/716424

I wonder if Stylist Magazine will be reporting that Mermaids have had to report themselves to the Charity Commission - perhaps they too are part of the smear campaign against themselves.

www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/mermaids-charity-halts-helpline-services-due-to-intolerable-abuse.html

The above is actually titled "Mermaids charity files serious incident report with the Charity Commission" which puts rather a different slant on things:

"Mermaids have filed serious incident reports to the Charity Commission, on a number of matters recently reported in the media.

A Commission spokesperson said: “We can confirm that, in line with our guidance, Mermaids has filed serious incident reports relating to matters recently reported in the media. We are engaging with the charity as part of an ongoing regulatory compliance case.”"

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 12:21

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 12:23

Oh bollocks!
shared GLP’s crowdfunder for the LGBalliance case and got caught in the artificial intelligence net.

will make it into an archive link and try again.

Here’s the Mermaids page on the case:

mermaidsuk.org.uk/amplifying-your-voice/18638-2/

Birdsweepsin · 09/10/2022 12:28

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 12:14

I presume LOLy-On’s Trans Advisory Board at The Good Law Project first decided to try and shut LGB Alliance down, and then inexplicably decided Mermaids was the best vehicle to do that (other LGBT and T charities ‘supported’ the case).

One of the people on the advisory group is a MermaidsMum
goodlawproject.org/update/advisory-group-transgender/

CN Lester is one of those TRAs that uses fear to drive division and anger.

inews.co.uk/essentials/every-fascist-movement-needs-scapegoats-transgender-people-perfect-target-69711

They told us why.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/amplifying-your-voice/18638-2/

"They (LGB alliance) exist to oppose free, safe and empowered trans lives and, as LGBT+ organisations, we stand as one to ask the Tribunal to quash the Charity Commission’s decision."

And also

“Charitable status is for those who serve the public good. Denigrating trans people, attacking those who speak for them, and campaigning to remove legal protections from them is the very opposite of a public good."

deepwatersolo · 09/10/2022 12:32

Thanks for the info TheClogLady. They really feel threatened by the thought not to have a monopoly on the‘narrative‘. That‘s all there is to it even by their own statement.
Remarkable.

TheClogLady · 09/10/2022 12:35

Birdsweepsin · 09/10/2022 12:28

They told us why.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/amplifying-your-voice/18638-2/

"They (LGB alliance) exist to oppose free, safe and empowered trans lives and, as LGBT+ organisations, we stand as one to ask the Tribunal to quash the Charity Commission’s decision."

And also

“Charitable status is for those who serve the public good. Denigrating trans people, attacking those who speak for them, and campaigning to remove legal protections from them is the very opposite of a public good."

That link was one of the ones in my automodded post above, I’ve archived it now (will paste at the bottom)

I meant, why Mermaids as the figure head of the action? Why not one of the LGB&T orgs?

We can speculate that Mermaids has a lot to lose if LGBA can get through to young gay people before they transition, but that’s not an argument they would want to put into the public space - they say trans children are trans children, not gay children, and they are born trans and never desist, detrans or regret it…

Crowdfunder:

archive.ph/JWgCF

Tribunal stage:

archive.ph/uMAwW

update:

archive.ph/oXPkL

Mermaids statement:

archive.ph/wHFhB

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.