Voting Labour/Lib Dem and gender ideology

[babyjellyfish]

If you've previously said you can't/won't vote Labour or Lib Dem due to their stance on women's rights, have the events of this week changed your mind at all?

I feel completely conflicted here.

I don't feel that Labour or the Lib Dems deserve my vote at all, but I'm also starting to feel that not voting for whoever has the best chance of getting the Tories out is completely irresponsible.

Anyone else in the same vote?

*same BOAT, I mean!

Yes. I was Lib Dem until their ridiculous anti-women stance. I still feel I can’t vote for anyone who would push through self-Id. But I am feeling less and less like voting Tory. Will need to spoil my ballot the way things are going.

For the 1st time, I probably won't vote

Yes. Always voted labour, thought I'd spoil my paper next time but now think I'd have to vote labour again.

Unless they do a U turn and show support for womens rights I can't vote for them can I. How can I vote for a party who have told me they will give away my rights. It's not possible.

I cannot believe that any political party that are so insane as to have comprehensively and enthusiastically embraced a quasi religious extremist position, that wishes to subordinate women, make homosexuality a thing of the past, abandon safeguarding if it conflicts with the desires and choices of a male, and legally punish and remove services from people who speak reality instead of obeying compelled speech, enforced participation in other people's beliefs and lying on command - can possibly show any more sanity on any other issue.

Once you start on 'reality is what he/they/zie says it is, this word means what I say it means, and you must enable this person in their belief to your own and other people's detriment or here's the police' then they are dangerously mad and there is zero point in expecting them to have a grip on anything at all. I don't want to live in a world that dangerously insane.

On the other hand, the Tories have now so comprehensively fucked everything up that I think here comes, inevitably, an entirely insane women-hating, male supremacist, out of their tiny minds left government. And all we can do now is make their lives too fucking difficult to get their agenda down the road. And that we have successfully dragged the tanker round far enough that all the promises to Stonewall and their other lunatic mates would now be too difficult to get through. But I strongly suspect here comes self ID at high speed and you think you've seen women fucked over? Oh give it a few years. The Tories are no fucking better but at least they dragged their feet a bit.

I vote in a Tory safe seat. My MP is Jeremy Hunt and I can't realistically see him losing regardless of what happens.

I always used to vote for the party most likely to come second. That has usually been the Lib Dems, although in two elections I voted for Louise Irvine of the National Health Action Party. I WISH I could still vote for her, but she doesn't stand in our constituency anymore now Jeremy Hunt is no longer health secretary.

Labour cannot win in my constituency, so voting for them would be nothing more than a protest vote which I really don't think they deserve.

The only party which has a hope in hell of unseating Jeremy Hunt is the Lib Dems, and their stance on women's rights is even worse than Labour's.

What a shitty situation to be in.

I suppose we can hope for a desperate left looney coalition and hope to fuck that they spend four years doing so much in fighting that they get nothing at all achieved.

Depressing but probably accurate summary.

One small ray of hope: if the country really is this completely and utterly fucked, will Labour actually have time to implement self ID, or will they be too busy trying to stop the country from burning to the ground?

I cannot vote for Lab/Lib dem until they understand the definition of a woman and ditch the self ID nonsense.

Until then I will actively vote against them.

Theresa May?

Jamie Wallis?

Not sure why you think the Tories are your natural bedfellows.

Tory policy is extremely damaging to women.

Oh not this again.

Saying 'I cannot vote as a woman for a party that refuses to name me or identify me' is NOT the fucking same as saying 'I am a rampant bloody Tory to the core'.

Many of us here are floating voters who will choose the least dangerous option out of a bunch of complete tossers we would never have intentionally chosen to vote for given any hope of any decent other party. But to do anything at all about protecting women from poverty or anything else you have to be able to actually name the fucking group you are talking about

Can we please have one single thread that isn't about sneering 'Tory lover' at anyone who has perfectly rational concerns about our currently insane Left leaning options?

@ImherewithBoudica ahhh finally a voice of reason! I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I find the tories unpalatable but in my area the Conservative representative is the only one who can define a woman and supports single sex spaces!

Labour are actually worse than they were under Corbyn. Starmer is so unbearably boring and also totally on board with twaw! Definitely loony left.

It is frustrating to read these comments. Yes, this is a major issue for lots of people on here and further afield and it clearly needs to be addressed. No, you shouldn’t base your vote solely on it, because if you do and it allows for tories back in then we are fucked on way more levels than trans issues. On women’s rights alone the Tory right is taking its cues from the Americans, you have JRM as a Secretary of State now ffs, and that wing gets bolder by the day.

Labour and the Lib Dens don’t have people that want to get rid of abortion rights. They don’t have people who want to pull us out of the ECHR. They don’t have people who want to get rid of paid leave, or maternity leave, or the NHS, or who are going to tank the economy (getting a mortgage or even just going on holiday with your family is about to become prohibitive thanks to the pound dying) etc

Get someone else in power who will fix some of the problems we’re facing, and advocate for the change you want when they’re in. Join the parties, go to the conferences, do something positive.

And if nothing else, the Tories have the same policy on this, so don’t think voting for them will help you here either.

Do people actually understand that self ID would include cross dressers and MAP (minor attracted persons - or as we call them, paedophiles).

I mean, do people just not know this when they vote Lib Dem/Labour who have stated that they support this. I can't understand why anyone would vote for that.

I’m sorry but if I have to choose between people becoming homeless and children going hungry and men in women’s spaces then I will chose the latter.
That should never be a choice and it really pains me as I AM GC and have been to Women’s Place meetings etc but I think things are getting so desperate now that I will have to vote Labour or Lib Dem even if they are confused about what a woman is

Well, my Labour MP specifically instructed me not to vote for him because of my "bigoted" belief that female humans deserve single-sex spaces. So I'll be a good obedient little lady and obey him.

And I clearly recall that at least one prominent LibDem issued a very similar generalised instruction.

Anybody who wants to scold me for not supporting Labour/LibDem, take it up with them and don't try to guilt-trip me, thanks.

advocate for the change you want when they’re in. Join the parties, go to the conferences, do something positive.

After ten years of bitter experience of women trying and trying and trying this all through the left party ranks and all the resulting evidence, I'm afraid this is no longer a forlorn hope, it's actively delusional.

Nope I still feel mortally offended that my former party (Labour) has gleefully thrown women's sex based rights and child safeguarding 'under the bus'.
I also want to stop the SNP so still a Tory vote for me.

You don't find the Tories that unpalatable then.

Well said.

Evidence as above for anyone who believes that any committed Labour person can ever be reasoned with. You either vote Labour or you're Evil By Definition.

It's impossible to have this conversation, it just demonstrates all over again, Labour is manned by nutjobs who are absolutely convinced of their own purity and of the evil of anyone not like them.

No thank you.

Yesterday I was seething about what Johnson and Truss have done to the country and was feeli g I’d vote for whoever is most likely to unweat my local Tory candidate, today after seeing that clip of Nandy speaking about how she prioritises the feelings of biological men over the safeguarding of vulnerable women and girls, I feel I have to vote Tory.

I don’t know what I’ll do on the day. If any non-Tory is willing to stand up the the trans lobbyists to protect womennand girls, they can have my vote. Otherwise it might have to be Conservative 😭

I always vote, out of respect for the suffragettes. Imagine going theough all that to get votes for women only to find out they didn’t turn up to vote. Also: voters choosing to not vote is now Trump got in.

So if Labour, or a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP coalition, form the next government, what practical steps can we take to protect women's rights?

The electorate is clearly not in favour of self ID. In fact, according to the latest polling, there is no longer even majority support for people being allowed to change their legal gender at all, let alone making it easier.