Voting Labour/Lib Dem and gender ideology

[babyjellyfish]

If you've previously said you can't/won't vote Labour or Lib Dem due to their stance on women's rights, have the events of this week changed your mind at all?

I feel completely conflicted here.

I don't feel that Labour or the Lib Dems deserve my vote at all, but I'm also starting to feel that not voting for whoever has the best chance of getting the Tories out is completely irresponsible.

Anyone else in the same vote?

I am Lucky I can afford to heat my house and eat

If I couldn't there is a significant chance an asthma attack that could kill me
Suicide rates will also go up , especially when we get to homes being repossessed
Under the current set up with no money in the economy the NHS will continue to go downhill meaning more people will die from preventable causes

This economic crisis is life threatening serious

Being left rather than right wing I actually ate about other people not just myself - you rather given yourself away there asking how I would be personally affect :-)

Get Tories out then deal with GC afterwards, it’s hardly the leading policy for any of the parties, and the Conservatives are only saying it to satisfy old gammons. They have proved time and again how they view women, and the erosion on them is already starting..so many of their actions negatively impact females.

Not if it means that 'woman' ceases to have any meaning because anyone can be a woman. Not if it means an end to same-sex relationships and lesbians expected to have sex with people with penises who identify as lesbians. Not if it means that a woman can no longer expect to use a loo or a changing room or a hospital ward without a man present. Not if it means that female prisoners are locked up with sex offenders who identify as women. Not if... I could go on for a very long time about why voting Labour at the moment is a bad idea for women. Do you not worry about these things? Or are you looking forward to self-ID?

They have a plan.

But is it cunning though

Not sure how to answer that 😂it has a better chance of success than a Baldrick plan, does that mean it isn't cunning enough?
#wibble

Oh, right, so you'll be all right then, midge.

I'm a feminist first. I respect all the women who dedicated their lives to making things better for women — including the vote. Even though I've been a Labour voter all my life I won't vote for a party that promotes an ideology that will have terrible, dangerous effects on half the population because of their biology.

I get all of that, but a simple pledge, a promise, to women that they intend to address these things would be better than nothing.

That's why I asked if you had read the second link, the Tory parties plans are all in there. The SoS for Justice has made his intentions very clear. The article also says that after the high court ruling they expect legal challenges to the planned policy change so that won't be the end of it. And this kind of shit show is being played out in almost every area of government. I can't quite believe we're here with so much to unpick but we are.

Does this mean if I put my underpants on my head and two pencils up my nose I can escape back to a time when this country was still sane?

Very true, but after this week's events it's hard to see how they could be worse.

In the words of the woke, all our governments need to 'do better'

If I voted in a marginal constituency then I might see things differently, but I vote in a constituency the Conservatives will always win.

Any vote for another party is a protest vote.

In the past I've always voted for the party I felt most deserved my protest vote, but right now I don't feel any of them do.

Exactly so in my opinion, but those who can't see anything on their radar but sex based rights aren't open to taking that on board. They can prioritise it all they like but I suspect in the next election the issue will be very low in the priorities most of the electorate apply to their voting choice.

Yes, I feel this deeply too.

I can't believe the only alternative to the Tories are this stupid.

Ordinarily I'd think fair point, but current polling suggests even "safe" seats are marginal so that's why I don't think it would be a good time to protest (assuming a GE soon)

The day Labour - or even the Lib Dems - get anywhere close to winning in my constituency is the day neither of them need my vote because it would be a landslide anyway.

This is what the second article says about the proposed change:

‘Having reviewed the arrangements in July, the Justice Secretary directed changes so transgender prisoners with male genitalia are not housed with other biologically born women in the female prison estate, unless specifically signed off by a Minister,’ said a spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice.

To me this is still inadequate, it doesn't amend the primary legislation that allowed the loophole in the first place.

Men who identify as trans can still enter the prison estate if specifically signed off by a Minister.

This means that there can potentially still be exceptions to the single sex exemptions and it will still boil down to individual discretion rather than a blanket NO males in single sex spaces.

It also doesn't remove rapists from NHS wards.

To me this is still inadequate, it doesn't amend the primary legislation that allowed the loophole in the first place.

I agree in part. Excluding people with male genitalia still leaves room for those who are male but have had SRS to be housed with women which is inadequate. I found a case in the states from either 2006 or 2009 where a post op TW brutally sexually assaulted a female inmate with whatever phallus substitute they could find so I definitely don't think SRS renders violent males safe to be housed with women.

Where I disagree is that it closes the loophole which allowed the discretionary nature of a safeguarding measure to be exploited for unintended purposes and reinstates single sex exemptions as appropriate for prisons. This will be a temporary fix until the policy change faces another legal challenge which it almost certainly will.

I also think a Ministerial sign off is a good way of holding the SoS for Justice accountable, you'd have to be insane to take the risk of signing off a convicted sex offender being housed with women.

One solution is to make single sex spaces mandatory but then the government would have to determine all the spaces to which that applied and I think that would be far too complicated to manage long term. The most effective solution is to repeal the GRA and do away with the ridiculous idea of legal sex altogether but that will take time.

I don't think I can ever forgive the Labour Party for their behaviour towards women these last few years. However, if they can reassure me that they will preserve my current legal rights as a woman, then I will put aside any personal feelings and vote for them.
If you object to that then I suggest you take it up with the party I have supported for well over 40 years, who I think know exactly what they are doing and who are banking that female socialisation and guilt will kick in. Not this time, not this female.

I also think a Ministerial sign off is a good way of holding the SoS for Justice accountable, you'd have to be insane to take the risk of signing off a convicted sex offender being housed with women.

Only if the minister agrees that men cannot be women.

What worries me about this approach is that it doesn't require a new government which believes TWAW to do anything other than give ministerial sign off to all men who identify as women going forward.

I know there are no easy answers here but my point still boils down to the fact that I do not believe the Tory Government is doing enough to have earned my vote on this single issue.

Particularly when Lisa Nandy has indicated that she does believe Sex Offenders who claim to be trans should be housed in accordance with their gender identity.

(Is this the Politics Forum? )
The next General Election is planned for 2025. I’m NOT prepared to wait whilst MY rights as a woman are put on hold till KS becomes PM. and maybe decides that a Female doesn’t have a Penis after all.

January 2025 is the latest it can be held. The Christmas Election was December 2019 and it is 5 year term so it is quite likely to be in the Autumn of 2024 which is still a long time away in politics.....to slightly misquote Harold Wilson.
The Tories still have a healthy majority and really cannot/should not change PM again.

Anybody who wants to scold me for not supporting Labour/LibDem, take it up with them and don't try to guilt-trip me, thanks.

This.

The stupid thing is that if Labour actually listened to the concerns of women (instead of blocking their own constituents on twitter), they would win back millions of votes. They didn't even allow them representation at their own party conference FFS.

They would have been slaughtered. That's how bad it is. Someone in Labour (ie Starmer or any successor) needs to be brave and tell them to fuck off.