Voting Labour/Lib Dem and gender ideology

[babyjellyfish]

If you've previously said you can't/won't vote Labour or Lib Dem due to their stance on women's rights, have the events of this week changed your mind at all?

I feel completely conflicted here.

I don't feel that Labour or the Lib Dems deserve my vote at all, but I'm also starting to feel that not voting for whoever has the best chance of getting the Tories out is completely irresponsible.

Anyone else in the same vote?

The stupid thing is that if Labour actually listened to the concerns of women (instead of blocking their own constituents on twitter), they would win back millions of votes. They didn't even allow them representation at their own party conference FFS.

If you vote Tory as a single issue for women's rights then at least ask the party why they are not prioritising closing the loopholes which allow the judiciary to exercise discretion in single sex spaces which allow pedophiles in women's prisons and rapists into women's hospital words.

They might know what a woman is but they are not doing a fat lot to prevent self ID by the back door.

I am politically homeless but I'm don't think that the Tory Party are the great protectors of women's rights. Not at all.

Compared to poverty, the cost of living and keeping a roof over one's head I doubt whether most of the electorate see self ID as a priority.

I understand the problem and am very concerned about self ID and the cancellation of women and their rights. But the Tory policies and ideas will harm women disproportionately, especially things like banning/reducing access to abortion, reducing funding for childcare, making it harder to claim benefits in order to stay at home to look after your child etc.

I am lucky in that my MP is one of the few GC Labour people so I am happy to vote for her on a personal level.

If you vote Tory as a single issue for women's rights then at least ask the party why they are not prioritising closing the loopholes which allow the judiciary to exercise discretion in single sex spaces which allow pedophiles in women's prisons and rapists into women's hospital words.

Yesterday there was a bit of a furore on Twitter because Sussex Police reprimanded people for pointing out that Sally Anne Dixon, who has been convicted of multiple sex offences against children and is now going to be housed in a women's prison, is a man.

Suella Braverman responded telling them to get on with catching criminals, not policing pronoun use.

I tweeted her back saying, "Thanks Suella, that's a great start. Now can you please do something about the fact that this man is going to be housed in a women's prison with vulnerable female prisoners?"

Well I don't think it is a priority for anyone except a small number of trans people.

Even if it weren't a massive safeguarding risk in itself, which it is, shouldn't Labour be focusing on things which are actually a priority for most people? Like, er, the economy?

If they'd even just put in their manifesto that they won't make any changes to the existing legal framework around sex and gender during the next parliament while they focus on other issues, that would probably swing it for me.

If things stay as they are I won't be voting (again). I didn't vote last time because of Boris (safe Con seat).

Unfortunately I don't think people understand the impact self id will have on women and by then it will be too late. I heard on Womens Hour this morning that according to a poll 50% of women will vote Labour 🙁

In case anyone hasn't seen it, this is a teacher in a school in Canada. This is what self ID gives you. Are people seriously going to vote for this?

This thread made me think of this image.

I also saw a really good comment somewhere which said roughly (I'm paraphrasing) that if our elected representatives do not have the gumption to stand against gender ideology, if they do not believe in it, then how can we trust them to stand up against anything? They've actively proven themselves to be weak and ineffectual.

I'll never vote SNP, Green or Labour again. The Tories up here will never get into power. I'm left hoping that some of the emerging parties will show some courage but apart from that, I'll can only spoil my vote.

Did you just not vote or did you spoil your ballot paper?

Well I now want action to continue from Liz Truss's cabinet. We know that she was the one who stopped full on 'self-id' having realised the consequences other countries and parties have wilfully ignored.
Boris Johnson belatedly spoke out against men in women's sport despite his wife's pro-Stonewall posturing. We were so relieved lol.
It was an issue in the Tory Leadership campaign and we know that the Home Secretary (Suella Braverman) and Kemi Badenoch support women's sex-based rights...heck even Priti Patel did 'they are not our crimes' but the Police just ignored Ms Patel.
The recent tweets from Sussex Police have been deleted and Braverman spoke out. Maybe this more female focussed Tory cabinet can actually roll something back.
There's a lady in charge of the NHS too, the other area madly taken in by gender ideology but they have got the Cass Review happening.
So it is far from perfect but what exactly has Starmer done at this week's conference to attract the votes of women who care about their sex-based rights and child-safeguarding? Anyone?

@abcd4321 The thing is that even if Liz Truss's cabinet do act to strengthen women's rights, it looks like they are going to completely tank the economy and Labour will win the next election by default.

Well the only way is up. I am so old I remember when Labour were expected to win in 1992 and then didn't and that was before the SNP held so many seats.

@babyjellyfish firstly, right back at you if the tories stay in power, as they have the same position.

Secondly there is an advantage that any new government is going to be overwhelmed in initial years fixing the fuckups of the preceding governments so it’s unlikely to go any further for a time. You have time to organise, you have time to lobby, you have time to stand as a candidate, and so on.

If the tories stay in you may be fighting this and a host of other issues at the same time. If it comes to this vs abortion rights which will you pick? Because bandwidth is a very real thing for these kinds of issues. To be blunt, you really just want to be fighting on one front here.

My lovely mum who campaigned for years for the Liberals and then the Lib Dems was told by a young Lib Dem Councillor that she was basically a bigot as she doesn't believe TWAW. I don't know if I would vote Lib Dem or Labour- it would depend on the actual candidate.

They don't though, do they?

They shelved plans for self ID, the conversion therapy ban doesn't extend to trans people, and they have MPs who are prepared to say out loud that women are female people.

You can't say any of that about Labour.

My only hope at this point is that they are going to be too busy dealing with the chaos to actually implement anything gender related.

If you vote Tory as a single issue for women's rights then at least ask the party why they are not prioritising closing the loopholes which allow the judiciary to exercise discretion in single sex spaces which allow pedophiles in women's prisons and rapists into women's hospital words.

Links to this judgement have been posted on other threads. It's a useful read IF you have any interest in understand why a loophole exists in the law. It's essentially to do with the way the GRA 2004 and EA 2010 interact and are interpreted by the judiciary. The loophole allows policies to circumnavigate single sex exemptions. Both laws were introduced by Labour, I do not think they intentionally created the "single sex' loophole, it was supposed to be a safeguard.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2021/1746.html

Because a High Court judge ruled that it was lawful for TW (under certain conditions) to be housed in the female prison estate it's not just as simple as saying they can't be. A whole new raft of policies will need to be drafted to protect trans prisoners and keep female prisons single sex. The solutions are fairly simple but the process of getting their is taking time. It's infuriating that politics and bureaucracy are putting women at risk.
Here's an article about the review.

www.thejusticegap.com/transgender-prisoners-may-be-excluded-from-womens-prisons/

Aren't we reading cases now, under a Tory government of men being sent to women prisons, this is actually being allowed to happen?

I wouldn't vote for a Tory government who are allowing this to happen

I wouldn't vote for a Tory government who are allowing this to happen

And I don't plan to.

But for me it's a choice between spoiling my ballot and voting for a party which will actively make things even worse for women, and right now I don't know what to do.

Yes but are you saying that a Government does not have power to amend legislation to close loopholes that harm vulnerable people, whether the loophole was intentional or not?

My point is that if the Tory Party weren't playing lip service to sex is real they would pledge to close that loophole. I understand this takes time but they haven't pledged to close it. I'm not sure the review goes far enough. If the single sex exemptions were properly applied then no male would have ever got into a woman's prison.

I can't help but feel that in the current circumstances Labour have a moral obligation not to lose the next election, and so they owe it to the country to ditch vote losing policies like self ID and come up with a sensible manifesto everyone can get behind rather than fannying about with identity politics.

I have changed my mind in that I won't actively vote Tory.

However I won't vote Labour/Lib Dem/Green either because I have many issues with them including self ID.

Unless something massive changes I will be spoiling my vote.

Indeed. It’s the Labour Party. Terribly concerned with peoples Labour being fairly rewarded and peoples labuour not being exploited.

unless you are a woman - in which case the free Labour you provide to make sure society functions is of no concern.

So basically it doesn't matter what the Tory's say, their actions are missing and they are too busy to fix things

And labour should they get elected will be too busy to break things further

?

I agree but surely it would be more damaging to Starmer to go back on everything he said he believes in on this matter. He said that some women have penises, how can he now say, actually I got that bit of very basic biology wrong.

At the time all politicians were being asked 'what is a woman' so he had plenty of time to prepare a sensible answer. He just didn't care enough about womens rights to face the wrath of the virtue signalling woke who were hell bent on cancelling anyone who did not conform.

He was a coward and he made a poor judgement. However, I think he will have to stand by that or look even more foolish. The Labour party need a new leader to gain those votes.