Lisa Nandy says TWAW and belong in women's prisons

[pattihews]

And she totally supports self-ID. This is why if a general election was called tomorrow, I'd either not vote or I might even vote Conservative, though that would be painful for me.

Labour are still totally captured. I know there are good people within Labour fighting from within, but a Labour cabinet would include people like Nandy and Starmer who are staying true to Stonewall. They can't be trusted with women's rights.

I stole this from another thread: thought it deserved one of its own. Hope that's okay.

There was a judical review of the transgender prison policy. Here's Fair Play for Women's write up.

fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prison-policy-judicial-review-ruling-confirms-trans-rights-do-conflict-with-womens-rights/

TheKeatingFive · Today 10:15
I find this really distressing and baffling.

Woman's safety being seriously threatened and they just don't care? Are happy to let it happen? Too thick and arrogant to even engage?

I look at the Denton principles and see how cleverly this has been wedded by the TRA groups, but at the same time I can't believe these people fell for it either. Is critical thinking just not something our political leaders do anymore?

You have summed up my feelings exactly, Keating

Well said OP. Plenty of straight men support us though, the real horrors are the handmaidens who don’t care they are assisting to eradicate the rights of their own sex. They are the ones that keep me up at night. Lisa Nandy et al are genuinely frightening. To go against your own sex in this way is just shocking tbh.

thekeatingfive I agree with every word you’ve said. Those that don’t care are either too stupid to see how it’ll affect them, or too privileged to ever think it’ll affect them. eeks post reeked of privilege. ‘A small issue’. Yea it is a small issue when it probably won’t affect you. Where is empathy when you need it hey? Or some open mindedness to explore how exactly this shit show will affect you?

But I suppose what he means by "correct balance" is that the men have all the rights, and the women have none.

That's my take on it, yes. I think it was quite a poorly written judgement. IANAL but I have read a few judgements from court cases relating to women's rights and even if I've been unhappy with the outcome I've generally been able to follow the judges logic. I followed the logic in this one but the way the judgement was written made it seem like the judge was having trouble following the threads of all the legislation he cited.

or too privileged to ever think it’ll affect them. eeks post reeked of privilege. ‘A small issue’

Yes exactly. It's been eye opening to fully understand how little certain types of women count in society.

Prisoners, abuse victims, orthodox religious, non neurotypical. These are the groups that are most affected by the TRAs and it's now clear how little anyone gives a shit about them.

The privileged, woke handmaidens are totally comfortable throwing them under the bus in the name of men's rights.

It's a very dark world we live in really.

Totally keating. The same women predominately being shafted by the abortion laws in America. Hopefully it’ll be fashionable to give a shit about women in dire straits or those vulnerable and/or living in proverty soon instead. I won’t hold my breath 🙄

Eeksteek - Today 11:05
Don’t be distracted. I bet loads of other Labour people said loads of other things that are far more important. Yet this is the one being publicised? Who’s behind that, do you think?

Who’s behind that, do you think?

Ulitimately, I think the people behind it are the very people involved - like Lisa Nandy and Keir Starmer et al - who have said what they’ve said, and who have even refused their own dissenting women (LWD) a stall at their convention.

They are treating the GC position as though it is a crime to be rooted out.

Hopefully it’ll be fashionable to give a shit about women in dire straits or those vulnerable and/or living in proverty soon instead

I won't hold my breath either.

I've been saying this for a while, but I feel it will be women's sports that will ultimately peak more people and lead the way to change.

These women are winners in society, they will elicit sympathy and support in a way that the more vulnerable women won't. Its sad to come to terms with that as a thought, but I believe it is the case.

I wish they'd stop with this shit, I really do - especially because there's no way she actually believes what she's saying...not a chance. I don't believe ANYONE who says TWAW, NO YOU DON'T, nobody does, not even TW, stop lying ffs!

In my opinion GC feminists are moving further and further to the right, possibly under the stealthy influence of conspiracy theorists. Some would prefer the dangerous politics of Truss and her gang than a centre Labour government.

I don't believe ANYONE who says TWAW, NO YOU DON'T, nobody does, not even TW, stop lying ffs!

Exactly. The blatant lying and gaslighting is hard to take. They need to fucking stop it.

So tell us, is it ‘right wing’ to be concerned that male sexual predators/paedophiles (with not GRC) are housed in women’s prisons? Do you have zero problem with it? Fascinated to know.

No this is too simplistic.

It is perfectly possible to be naturally left wing and to despair of the labour party's stance on women's rights.

In my opinion it is a right wing policy to impose laws on women which remove our rights.

The 'left' have lost their way here. They need to win back the women's vote, they can't just rely on 'we are least worst than the Tories'.

I for one refuse to be taken down the 'oh you're all far right racists really' rabbit hole. Conspiracy theorists? Fuck off.

If people actually want to understand why GC feel as they do and why voting Labour would be highly problematic for them, try fucking listening to them. And applying your brain and critical faculties to the points they are raising about women's rights

Fascists not racists

It’s not just the politicians - there is a failure by experts to hold the politicians to account.

who rolled over and let males into female wards? RCM, RCOG, RCN, etc. all the Royal Colleges are captured and none of them have, it seems, done any critical thinking - so women get, at best, substandard care, and at worst, raped on a ward.

we need the experts to stand up for their own ethics and fields. But, they havent, they don’t care about the women ejther

Now that 'no debate' is failing as a strategy, I'm seeing more and more 'oh these are far right views, how could you be comfortable with that?' as an alternative means of silencing.

Fuck right off with that. It's not our fault the left doesn't give a flying about vulnerable women. That's all on them.

Your post is a conspiracy theory in itself.

I'm not sure if I would describe myself as either GC or a feminist anymore. I'm more gender abolitionist than critical the left have told me I'm not good enough to call myself a feminist because I don't prioritise political allegiance above women's rights. I'm fine with that, I don't want to insinuate myself where I'm not wanted.

The left abandoned women not the other way round. Labour only need to abandoned self ID and reinforce the sex based rights of a mere 50% of the population and we'd be good. I guess we know where their priorities lie.

The left abandoned women not the other way round.

This. Times a million.

Lisa Nandy just lost Labour the next election.

There are three things I wish the Labour leadership would accept.

1. 50% of voters are women.
2. The vast majority of women do not believe “transwomen are women” - we do not want men (especially rapists) in women’s prisons, or in women’s rape centres, or in women’s changing rooms, we do not want lesbians harassed for refusing to sleep with men, and we do not want children who don’t fit sexist stereotypes being taught in school that they have ‘the wrong brain’ and should submit to surgery and sterilisation.
3. Until Labour change their policy on this, we will not vote Labour into a position of power.

Yes, this is more important than the economy. Yes, it is a ‘hill I will die on’. But why are Labour so happy to die on this hill?

Why is this issue so important to Labour that they’re throwing away the next election for it? Looking at the damage the Tories are doing and have done, why won’t Labour just drop their unpopular and harmful policy, which everyone except Labour can see is out of date? How dare Lisa Nandy call for unity, compromise, and dialogue, while chanting the offensive and divisive “transwomen are women” slogan and refusing to see any point of view but her own?

(JK Rowling, please consider forming a political party. You’d be epic.)

We are right wing fascists for giving a shit about our sex based rights and for wanting to protect our children dontcha know?! We’ve even been indoctrinating little right wing fascist babies 😉. Shouting ‘you’re right wing’ at someone that cares about the rights particularly of vulnerable women is akin to those ejits that shout ‘be kind’ when something is said that they don’t want to hear. We will not be silenced and we will not be scared into handing over our rights for fear of being called ‘right wing’. I’ve been called worse than that (usually by men as well).

There's a meme on another thread that beautifully represents where I stand: check it out:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4640337-sarah-ditum-on-posie-parker?page=30

I used to be more radical but having been a member of the Labour Party in north London during the Militant years, and seen the male-driven madness of that, I moved towards a more soft-left position in the 90s. For 30 years I've been occupying the same position, looking for a better deal for the poorest, looking to close the wealth gap, looking for more money for schools, housing, the NHS, benefits etc. I haven't moved to the right, but the left has moved further to the left and adopted a policy that denies biology and reality. No party that will uphold a lie like this will get my vote.

All the TRA apologists seem to have in their arsenal is silencing, bullying, non sequiturs, whataboutery.

They absolutely know that their arguments will fall apart under any scrutiny.

What I don't really understand though is what those who say not to vote for the CP because they are not doing enough are suggesting.

None of the other parties that most people can vote for will do as much about this. On the contrary, they will do the opposite.

Even if it's a vote for a party that won't get in, if the LP gets in right now they would be doing all of these horrible things with abandon, as far as we can see.

Of course some may feel other issues need to be considered. But as far as this one issue is concerned, there really are no options. Slow change of direction, or worse than it is now.