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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Carly-May Kavanagh

1000 replies

NitroNine · 23/09/2022 00:46

There are rumours circulating on Twitter that Carly-May Kavanagh (the one who screams at babies: Daily Mail) has, despite her “apology” been suspended from the Labour Party. Presumably such a suspension would have an impact on her job as Lloyd Russell-Moyle‘s head of policy?

Apparently if she is suspended it [probably] won’t be made public. Given the reason for her [potential] suspension; if Labour actually do take action, you’d think they’d want to reassure people that they expect their members to uphold certain standards. I mean, “not screaming abuse at infants” is less upholding a standard than it is failing to trip over pebbles of basic decency…

Clearly one cannot put too much weight into Random Person Says Unevidenced Thing. However, it would be a foolish rumour to start without cause, so I thought it was worth starting a thread here to see if there are developments to follow.

Should Kavanagh face consequences for her behaviour it will be a watershed moment: Labour acknowledging women have rights all their own, including the rights to assemble & to speak on issues of concern to them, such as their need for single sex provisions.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
PronounssheRa · 25/09/2022 16:47

Do you know why Nigel garage succeeded so well? because he listened. While the left was busy calling anyone who questioned immigration as racist bigots

Quite. And if you want to watch this playing out in real time in another country just look at Italys election today. Different factors are influencing that election but at its core is that people don't feel listened too, feel ignored or neglected.

Abhannmor · 25/09/2022 17:06

Farage didn't win anything of course. Johnson stole his clothes. Trump listened. Or pretended to.

But the far right can't use this trick again in England , since they have already won power using it. Now the mask slips , they dump the Red Wall and fill their trousers.

Therefore Labour would do well to sling their rainbow lanyards in a skip in Liverpool and focus on bread and butter.

Hepwo · 25/09/2022 19:28

Is that a Labour narrative @Abhannmor ? That the Red Wall was a one off "far right" trick? Mmm.

The analysts that identified the Red Wall trend accurately in the first place have a different take on the data.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/20419058211045127
Looking ahead
Will seats that turned blue for the first time since the 1990s, and in some cases, since the Second World War, in 2019, stay blue at the next election? While it remains too early to make confident predictions, our preliminary analysis suggests firstly, that the seats gained by the Conservatives in Labour’s heartlands in 2019, could become the party’s new safe seats and secondly, that more historic gains could be made at the next election. Several seats that were designated as part of the Red Wall and which emerged as marginal Labour holds in 2019, remain on course to tip the balance at the next election, and a range of Labour heartlands constituencies geographically contiguous with those which turned blue in 2019, are also now trending this way.

ANewCreation · 25/09/2022 20:02

Is it neo-religious fervour that inspired CMK to act so badly and to see her 'sin' solely in terms of its effect on her fellow activists? To my mind, there is something like a call and response about the way that the argument has flowed over the years.

Take your pick of any call...

(Our)Call:
Sex matters and is immutable/there are 6500 differences between male and female people/sex is not a spectrum as people with DSDs are still male or female/male bodies which have been through male puberty retain male advantage/show me the third gamete/ a woman who has a double mastectomy or a hysterectomy is still female whether the removal is due to cancer or dysphoria etc etc

(Transactivist) Response:

'Look at this one Nature opinion piece article - GCs are ignorant bigots who need to educate themselves beyond high school science'

Call:

'Should an adult male-born person with a penis be able to undress in a communal changing room where teenage girls are undressing?

Is it still accurate that 95% of TW retain their male genitals or has that percentage actually gone up due to the explosion in numbers?

If 98% of sex crime perpetrators are male (and we are starting to have doubts about the actual sex of some of the remaining 2%) why on earth are any male prisoners being placed in women’s prisons?

What about 4th spaces to ensure the safety, privacy and dignity of women and girls?

Response:

'OMG, GCs are obsessed with genitals - you're disgusting'

Call:

'Can't you see that gender ideology is illogical/incoherent/misogynistic/ homophobic/particularly harmful to lesbians who shouldn't have to accept males in their dating pool?'

Response:

'TWAW. GCs are not pro women but all anti-trans transphobic bigots who are trying to take away our rights. And your views - < misstate GC views here>
make no sense.

Call:

'There is no such thing as a 'trans' child - just children with dysphoria/ it's impossible to be born in the 'wrong' body/ puberty is a tough but vital maturational stage and dysphoric children need talking therapy not drugs/this looks like eugenics for gay and autistic kids/we want to protect kids from making harmful decisions with powerful lifelong consequences for their future health, fertility and sexual pleasure which they may later regret

Response:

'GCs want trans people to not exist/genocide/kill themselves'

Call:
We are concerned about how potent (particularly for vulnerable people) the love bombing/TWAW mantras/no debate/encouragement of detachment from family/shunning of apostates/grooming of teenagers on the internet prior to a sudden declaration of gender dysphoria/magical thinking/group think etc might be.

Response:

'GC is a cult'.

Call:

We have had to raise many hundreds of thousands of pounds for court cases to protect the existing sex based rights of UK women and girls.

Response:

'GCs are funded by the American Christian Right . And btw 'sex-based rights' is a transphobic dog whistle.'

Call:
Many of us find ourselves 'politically homeless', we have cut up our Labour party memberships, we are apparently 'wrong' to say that only women have a cervix, we are dinosaurs hoarding our rights. After decades we have stopped buying The Guardian, we are told by the Lib Dems not to vote for them, the Greens use terf-blocker. We see that groups with similar views to ours are not even allowed a stand at conference. Although the GRA was a Labour Act, most of our current woes have been embedded in our institutions under a Tory government. We are Maria Miller's 'so-called feminists'. Right wing women are women. Things have got so bad that a politician who simply "knows what a woman is"
(and in the UK in 2022 it seems that only Tory politicians are currently free to express this) has become a measure of positive judgment.

Response:

"Serves you right, you right wing bigot."

And now (because someone apparently filmed a public event in a public place) 'GCs are alt-right/ literal Nazis'

Call:
We can see the authoritarianism of 'TWAW:no debate', the threatening black-bloc masked individuals at Manchester, Bristol and Brighton, the closing down of free speech, the questioning of Stickerwoman, the police visits for thought crimes and hateful haberdashery, the smoke bombs, the banging on windows to disrupt a wpuk meeting, the vilification of a left wing philanthropist like JKR, the secret recording of non crime hate incidents, the threats of sexual violence at Filia, the sacred caste, the capture of institutions, the expensive recourse to the law to uphold our legal rights, the women losing their jobs over tweets, the pile ons, the shaming, the substitution of gender in place of sex, the census debacle, the policing of language, the pronoun rounds, the 'die in a grease fire', the 'we've been using it for years so we're coming in anyway', the suspect training in schools, the safeguarding frameworks under threat...

Response:
"GCs are Nazis and fascists." 🤔

Call

'Look at all these creepy blokes using a trans identity as cover for their crimes' and 'look at the criminal record of these men who tried to remove single sex spaces'

Response:
< crickets >

TheBiologyStupid · 25/09/2022 20:44

Is it neo-religious fervour that inspired CMK to act so badly and to see her 'sin' solely in terms of its effect on her fellow activists?

As the physicist Steven Weinberg said, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion".

And gender ideology is most definitely a religion.

tiredkiwi1 · 25/09/2022 20:56

Why is noone pointing out that CMK shouted at the man and not the baby? If you listen to the video she doesn’t talk to the baby. Not that I agree with calling someone a fascist.

reesewithoutaspoon · 25/09/2022 21:47

tiredkiwi1 · 25/09/2022 20:56

Why is noone pointing out that CMK shouted at the man and not the baby? If you listen to the video she doesn’t talk to the baby. Not that I agree with calling someone a fascist.

Oh thats ok then. The baby will understand that the shouty pointing women didn't mean them, they wont be at all affected by the threatening shouty women

VaggieMight · 25/09/2022 21:52

The other woman did directly address the baby. She said to the baby "I'm so sorry he's your father" or similar. As PP has said, it doesn't matter though. They were ranting in the babies face.

ScreamingMeMe · 25/09/2022 23:17

The baby had a badge saying fascist. You can't see it, but it's definitely there.

Carly-May Kavanagh
Datun · 25/09/2022 23:42

ScreamingMeMe · 25/09/2022 23:17

The baby had a badge saying fascist. You can't see it, but it's definitely there.

Oh dear God these people are just the end.

ninetynineAu · 26/09/2022 01:02

With regard to CMK "calling the baby a fascist", my recollection is that she did.
Not screaming "You're a fascist!!" in the baby's face but she did shout at the bloke "..oh and you're raising a fascist child!", making a (quickly withdrawn) hand gesture toward the baby.

EfingNora · 26/09/2022 06:46

The baby was wearing a badge that labelled it a fascist? Oh my Days! We are most definitely on the other side of the Loooking Glass.

TheKeatingFive · 26/09/2022 07:10

Gosh, that reminds me, I'm running very low on baby facist badges. Must stock up. 😆

SapphosRock · 26/09/2022 07:25

Sorry but I'm laughing at the thought of the baby wearing a swastika.

I'm pretty sure the mum who posted on the deleted thread said it was a suffragette badge.

Quite a big difference.

ArabellaScott · 26/09/2022 07:34

A badge that said 'fascist'? Amazing.

Rumours that women at the event were wearing badges that said 'baddies' are unconfirmed.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/09/2022 07:45

I wonder if you can buy a ‘fascist on board’ sticker for your car?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/09/2022 07:54

^With regard to CMK "calling the baby a fascist", my recollection is that she did.
Not screaming "You're a fascist!!" in the baby's face but she did shout at the bloke "..oh and you're raising a fascist child!", ^

She said "you're raising a little fascist"

SynchronisedStrimmer · 26/09/2022 09:16

I’m a lurker who doesn’t usually post on these boards because there are so many clever contributors who express their arguments with much more eloquence than I ever could.

I’m commenting now because I have rtft and the disingenuous nature of Sapphos posts shines through. It’s shocking.

Thanks you to the posters calling out this behaviour. You have the patience of angels.

TinselAngel · 26/09/2022 10:23

tiredkiwi1 · 25/09/2022 20:56

Why is noone pointing out that CMK shouted at the man and not the baby? If you listen to the video she doesn’t talk to the baby. Not that I agree with calling someone a fascist.

"It's OK daddy, the lady is shouting at you, not me."

SapphosRock · 26/09/2022 10:47

SynchronisedStrimmer · 26/09/2022 09:16

I’m a lurker who doesn’t usually post on these boards because there are so many clever contributors who express their arguments with much more eloquence than I ever could.

I’m commenting now because I have rtft and the disingenuous nature of Sapphos posts shines through. It’s shocking.

Thanks you to the posters calling out this behaviour. You have the patience of angels.

Care to expand on why you found my posts so shocking and disingenuous? Which posts in particular shocked you the most?

Or have you just popped in to be a bully?

YouSirNeighMmmm · 26/09/2022 11:23

SapphosRock · 25/09/2022 10:53

When have feminists said they want to be in partnership with the far right?

They definitely don't want that. Hence why many feminists (Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock etc) want nothing to do with Posie Parker.

Can we just be clear about what SapposRock stated in this post?

[Someone being quoted] When have feminists wished to partner the far right.

[SapphosRock] Feminists do not want to partner the far right, which is why many feminists do not want to partner with Posie - she is someone on the far right.

I believe that accusing Posie of being on the far right is a disgusting slur and potentially libellelous, but IANAL.

SapphosRock · 26/09/2022 11:28

Why are you lying @YouSirNeighMmmm ?

I never said PP is far right herself. However she does collaborate with those on the far right which many left wing feminists are uncomfortable with.

TheClogLady · 26/09/2022 11:33

SapphosRock · 26/09/2022 11:28

Why are you lying @YouSirNeighMmmm ?

I never said PP is far right herself. However she does collaborate with those on the far right which many left wing feminists are uncomfortable with.

Sappho, the way that quote is phrased it definitely reads that Posie is far right and that’s why [these feminists] won’t work with her.

Perhaps it’s just an unfortunate turn of phrase but you also said that Andy Ngo is far right and he’s just a fairly bog standard American conservative so it’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt on the Posie phrasing.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 26/09/2022 11:33

SapphosRock · 26/09/2022 11:28

Why are you lying @YouSirNeighMmmm ?

I never said PP is far right herself. However she does collaborate with those on the far right which many left wing feminists are uncomfortable with.

I am not lying. I am interpreting your words which I have accurately quoted.

I would love other people to chime in and tell me if I am mistinterpreting them, but I really don;t think I am.

You may not have meant to, but you said explicitly that.

They [Feminists] definitely don't want that [to be associated with the far right]. Hence why many feminists (Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock etc) want nothing to do with Posie Parker [because she is on the far right].

I cannot say any other way of interpretting your words.

If you wish to confirm that you do not think that Posie is on the far right then say so and I will post thanking you for your clarification.

YouSirNeighMmmm · 26/09/2022 11:35

TheClogLady · 26/09/2022 11:33

Sappho, the way that quote is phrased it definitely reads that Posie is far right and that’s why [these feminists] won’t work with her.

Perhaps it’s just an unfortunate turn of phrase but you also said that Andy Ngo is far right and he’s just a fairly bog standard American conservative so it’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt on the Posie phrasing.

Thank you for reassuring me that I am not going mad. I hope and trust that Sappho will be back very soon to apologise for a lack of clarity and confirming that she does not believe Posie to be on the far right.

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