Teen terfs, still respecting pronouns of their friends

[BiologicalKitty]

I've recently had some "check in" conversations with my teens - one at a local high-school, one at a local college. Both have trans and/or nonbinary friends.

My teens agree biological sex is unchangeable, that gender stereotypes are harmful, but are surrounded by the rhetoric that it's only right, and only kind, to respect pronouns.

This has led to some odd conversations about their friends, while they admit it is really confusing. I've been blunt and asked them to tell me their friends' biological sexes before sleepovers etc, because I need to know the full landscape of their activities. They are OK with using clear language with me, which is good.

I'm finding it incredibly eye opening, realising there are teens who shrug and say, yeah, I know you can't change sex, and for me, I know I can do whatever I like and that doesn't change my body, but I'll still respect my friends' pronouns and jump through these mental hoops because it's actually pretty normal and some people aren't comfortable being a boy or girl.

Do you think this is an improvement? I'm not sure. I don't like the confusion that changed pronouns causes (a schoolmate who identifies as male but went through a teen pregnancy...) and I think it's a massive potential safeguarding issue (see above re sleepovers).

Strange new world.

I see she's updating her buddies as to what's going on (with bullshit btw) but won't come on here and engage herself.

I wonder why? 🤔

It's probably too windy in the thread for her straw man to stay upright before she gets the chance to knock it down first. 🤔

On not passing.

Tbh I think a lot of trans kids and young adults pass as androgynous at the very least. Of the three trans teenage girls/women I know, two would make you look twice though I think would mostly be seen as female, and one as a boy, no question. Which is why I think they/them for everyone is probably where we're going to end up.

Regards to passing I think male to female never ever pass but the other way round can sometimes pass very well. I won’t use someone’s preferred pronouns though if they don’t match their sex. They can think they are the opposite sex all they like but they can’t force me to!

Setting and relationship is also a factor. I think with your own kids, or if you are an adult in authority, you are in a different position than a friend, which is different again from an acquaintance.

I deal with a lot of people in my job who say all kinds of bs things, and generally I don't challenge them because it's really not my role.

I really dislike the default to they/them though, and I don't do it. I think in some ways it does more to undermine reality than actually going along with the fib, and it is infiltrating language is a very startling and sometimes confusing-creating way.

How odd, I'm blocked by this person, yet I've hardly ever tweeted or anything? There must be some list somewhere.

TERF blocker. Invented so they/them can't see hurty words.

This is part of the problem for me with my younger sister, who is insistent that she's a trans boy. It's getting to the point where out in public, to other people it looks like I'm crazy because she has some facial hair now and looks masculine so strangers her as a boy. I'm trying to be the one person holding strong on this to snap her out of it, before she gets surgery or goes further, but I don't want to look ridiculous in some settings.

Seems like that particular software ended 2 or 4 years ago. Installed Shinigami Eyes, not reported on that.

Personally I don't care about the particular Tweeter (who appears to live in a fantasy land and has nothing of worth to say), I'm simply more interested in the software. Databases of users are a breach of GDPR.

Looks like there is something else (Megablock) that enables users to block all users who liked a particular tweet. Or perhaps there are some bored Twitter users who report every tweet to a so-called Terf list?

'Megablock' kind of sums up Gen Z, doesn't it?

Yes, many teens can look androgynous - they've not finished growing yet. A terrible time to make these huge medical decisions.

Can't blame them for going along with it for the sake of a quiet life. It appears that in private they're under no delusions so I wouldn't be worried.

Oh gosh that Reddit post almost brought me to tears. Imagine going through your teenage years convincing yourself you're a girl and surrounding yourself with people who validate that, then you get to your first day of adulthood, with all the freedom and the chance to be your true self that you've longed for and bam, men don't give you the time of day as they chat up the 'cis' girls. What a hateful ideology this is to set people on that collision course.

The poster mentioned always having had difficulty around fitting in and making friends. That was me, and I had a tough enough time adjusting to being away from home. What if I'd also pinned all my hopes on some unachievable fantasy only to have to deal with that crashing down too. I dread to think.

I know, it was tragic (if real. There was something about the 'despite having short hair' and having transition held back because of mean parents that raised a doubt).

It wasn't quite clear what they expected in the way of 'being treated like a cis girl' -- completely ignored, poor kid? Or just that the other students immediately knew this was a male student and treated them accordingly?

I would imagine there are lots of examples of people keeping quiet about their opinions while being publicly supportive.

Those who have been asked to put their pronouns on their email footer for example. I know I would detest having to do that - why should I have to advertise my biological sex on a work email ffs?

I have recently change my first name via deed poll. I have asked many places to change their records but some have refused until I have shown the deed poll.

But there are school children who are asking teachers to remember their new name and individual pronouns and their peers live in fear of getting it wrong.

I'm pretty sure it is real. His posting history about his parents' non-acceptance of being trans goes back six month, and Reddit is absolutely rife with similar posts.
It's very sad. I think even for regular kids, uni becomes the place where they hope to reinvent themselves, and to some extent it is. You're living away from home, technically an adult for the first time. But if you've always struggled socially, and you wrap up the expectation of transitioning with becoming this shiny new person with loads of friends - there's going to be quite a fall when it doesn't happen. And of course that expectation is even higher because just by announcing you're trans on social media, you're love bombed by this new community, and so being trans = loads of affirmation and acceptance.

Sorry, SirCharlesRainier, I realise I've basically repeated your post but in a much less articulate way. I just find it very cruel. Life's hard enough for teenagers.

Likely the latter, in a couple of ways: not accepted as a potential romantic partner by people who are attracted to women, and not accepted as a "let's go shopping and try on makeup together" gal pal by women.

If not real it's certainly instructive and probably representative. There was an article on, I think, transgender trend, called something like "a childhood is not reversible" about the effects of social transition once reality hits at puberty. I suppose this is a delayed version of the same.

But she/ he is already saying that ‘it isn’t fair’ that people both male and female are not treating him/ her as female (even though I don’t have long hair(!))….the entitlement which leads to anger and resentment is being stoked. Scroll down the page a little further and you see a recruitment poster for ‘ protesting against the LGB alliance’.

People can chose to socially lie to make others more comfortable, let's face it most of us do it all the time.

People can chose to socially lie to make others more comfortable, let's face it most of us do it all the time.

Not in a way that denies biological facts though.

We lie about opinions and subjective stuff, 'that's a lovely dress' sort of thing. We don't deny scientific reality.

Children have been physically attacked for being openly gender critical. I wouldn’t suggest you put your children at risk. They need to smile and nod and pretend in order to keep themselves safe.

@TheKeatingFive oh of course we do!

"You're looking well" "You can't really tell its false" "Bald suits you" "Yes I think his walking is improving " "Well done Archie that was really good/fast"

I mean if you don't want to, then fine, I don't think you should be compelled to. I just don't think it's always such a huge problem.

You're looking well" "You can't really tell its false" "Bald suits you" "Yes I think his walking is improving " "Well done Archie that was really good/fast"

You really can't tell the difference between those and 'you're a biological woman'? Seriously?

I mean, if someone wants you to pretend they're black because it 'makes them more comfortable' should that be something we're open to also?

I appear to be blocked too. I doubt that I'm missing anything worth reading.