Mermaids vs LGB Alliance and Charity Commissioner - First-tier Tribunal (General Regulatory Chamber) Thread 3

[nauticant]

The Tribunal started on 9 September, witness testimony started on 12 September.

To obtain access to view the proceedings, send a request email to [email protected] about case CA/2021/0013 - Mermaids vs Charity Commissioner and LGB Alliance and ask for permission to join. You then have to provide certain information and agree to a judge's direction in order to be able to join.

There is also live tweeting from twitter.com/tribunaltweets.

Abbreviations:

J or judge: Presiding Judge, Judge Lynn Griffin
AJ or Judge: Assisted by Judge Joe Neville
MG: Mermaids counsel is Michael Gibbon KC
KM: LGB Alliance counsel is Karon Monaghan KC
AR: Karon is assisted by Akua Reindorf
IS: Charity Commission counsel is Iain Steele

(Also the witnesses, PR: Paul Roberts, JN: John Nicolson. BB: Belinda Bell, BJ: Beverley Jackson, KH: Kate Harris, and EG: Eileen Gallagher.)

Thread 1: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4629679-mermaids-versus-lgb-alliance-in-court-today
Thread 2: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632780-mermaids-vs-lgb-alliance-and-charity-commissioner-first-tier-tribunal-general-regulatory-chameber-thread-2
Thread 3: ongoing

Witnesses for the applicant (Mermaids):

Paul Roberts - CEO of LGBT Consortium (12 September)
John Nicolson MP - Deputy Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT+ Rights (13 September)
Dr Belinda Bell - Chair of trustees of Mermaids (13 September)

Witnesses for the respondent (LGB Alliance):

Beverley Jackson - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (13-14 September)
Kate Harris - Co-founder and trustee of LGB Alliance (14-15 September)
Eileen Gallagher OBE - Chair of trustees of LGB Alliance (15 September)

Witness Statements:

Paul Roberts: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Paul-Roberts-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
John Nicolson MP - lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/John-Nicolson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Dr Belinda Bell: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Belinda-Bell-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Beverley Jackson: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Bev-Jackson-Witness-Statement-Exhibits-1.pdf
Kate Harris: lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Kate-Harris-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf
Eileen Gallagher (two statements): lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Eileen-Gallagher-Second-Witness-Statement-Exhibits.pdf

Submissions:

lgballiance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Volume-4-Submissions-CA.2021.0013.pdf

(Header format follows the gold standard established by @ickky)

post updated by MNHQ at OP's request

I am actually finding it quite moving, in parts.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_personal_is_political

Authorship contested. But 2nd wave feminist.

What I mean is, how are LGBA supposed to separate the political? They can't, language is literally the starting point for meeting their aims. Same as with attempts to change the meaning of the word Women. How can we fight for women's rights when the TRAs are trying to change the meaning of Woman.

He doesn't appear to show much conviction, does he? 😄

So wishing I could watch! Limited to UK only, though.

Well, it's a great pity they have stopped tweeting, I was finding it really useful to have more than one report.

J: you barristers need to figure out a doable schedule and tell me what it is at 16.15.

I forget now but did I post this?

www.rollonfriday.com/discussion/mermaids-v-lgb-alliance-day-3

They're also on thread 3.

KH is a great witness. I really like how she has linked LGBA aims to what used to be Stonewall's. You can also sense how sad she is that Stonewall abandoned the LBA community.

I think it's a scandal Stonewall turned its back on Leeds Bradford Airport.

Yes I can imagine she has felt a great betrayal.

The reason this initially interested me was that I was also a tom boy and I'm also sure I would have been pushed down the trans pathway.

I think their may be some poor grammar in the thread you refer to

Tribunal Tweets stated they broke away from proceedings because GLP and Susie Green put out a video explaining proceedings after they had started. They wanted the Judge to look at it.

Totally out of order but looks like that maybe what the judge referred to?

I think what they meant is the TT thread stated “the judge stopped proceedings because GLP and Susie Green put out a video explaining proceedings after they had started. LGBAs KC wanted the Judge to look at it.”

Totally out of order (by GLP/SG) but looks like that maybe what the judge referred to?

The new Jesus n Mo cartoon is quite good (and not too far off-topic):
www.jesusandmo.net/comic/untrue/

Jesus how did it get to thread 3

i only popped out with my dad

😩

J: To clarify you expect to finish both KH and Miss Gallagher by lunch?
MG: yes

ERmahgawd what are they suggesting?!

Why not start early for 2 days like in Allison's case?

I mean, 10-4 with over an hour's lunch!

Everything's up in the air over the schedule, KM and IS keen to get it wrapped up, MG keen to spin it out in view of the significance of this case in an area of the law without much case law.

I really feel very, very sorry for Mr Monkey Gibbon, KC.

I presume he took this on the "cab rank" principle (and because they could pay his fees), and now he finds himself stuck with a - I won't say "unwinnable" because nothing is impossible if you have faith etc etc etc - but certainly a disheartening and humiliating case that he wishes he'd never seen land on his desk, and one which will drag his reputation as an able lawyer with great command of his brief through a prickly hedge and drop it into a cowpat.

If it was me I'd cry myself to sleep every night until this was over.

KM making the point that delays are a threat to LGBA existence, given how new and small. Some funders waiting on outcome of tribunal. It may be this was always MG's strategy...he is keen to stress that tribunal may need lots of time to decide such an important and unusual case.

Roll on Friday comments seem largely very admiring of KH.

Annoying as it is, I think he is right that the law and other matters raised need to be examined carefully. He recognises the public interest and how any decision may impact other organisations. They have to get this right and, importantly for women, children and LGBA, this might be their one good shot. So much has come out, it's been absolutely fascinating and exhilarating even to see it all displayed in a court. Finally.

Oohh do you have a link to that, please?

This is my thread.

Obviously I didn't have time to post in two places at once.

Thought Kate Harris was brilliant.

I also suspect that Michael Gibbon doesn't believe in the case he is putting forward. He gave himself away slightly at the end of his examination of Bev Jackson, when he referred to "gender identity ideology" rather than "trans rights".

None of the true believers call it an ideology.

It's tuesday!

How marvellous to see you here. Keep up the good work elsewhere.

Tuesday thanks for your insights!