Mermaids versus LGB alliance in court today??

[GrabbyGabby]

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/09/trans-charity-mermaids-appeal-lgb-alliance-status

Not sure if it is today or next week. Do we know if this is open like the tribunals?

I get that it must be a lot of work to be a CEO of a charity and maybe you wouldn't have time to stay up to date on everything but surely if you're going to court accusing another charity of being transphobic you would be well up on your stuff, you'd know the latest research and know what definitions you were using for basic things. It all seems very sloppy and like hes scared to learn too much.

It's just male dominance arrogance. He never had to bother himself with words like "lesbian" and "woman", because it never occurred to him that these words actually do exclude men!

Nicholson is a vile windbag, blocks anyone who takes issue with his comments and is an all round bawbag.

The witnesses do so badly because they're in a complete bubble. They've never had to properly formulate an argument. The most basic concepts are apparently too complex to explain, yet they're arguing that children have the comprehension to understand and make life changing decisions.

Absolutely this @VaggieMight !

Archived tweet:
web.archive.org/web/20201216221244/twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1339332454046461958

Archived images attached to tweet:

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20201216221247im_/pbs.twimg.com/media/EpZDw_rWEAA6luv.jpg

1. IIRC this was not tweeted by LGBA at JN - it is a screenshot of a post on the LGBA Crowdfunder that LGBA deleted asap. Possibly a "plant" of the type seen on Mumsnet, placed for the sole purpose of getting a screenshot? I don't recall who first tweeted the screenshot or if LGBA ever tweeted it.

web.archive.org/web/20201216221246im_/pbs.twimg.com/media/EpZDw_lXcAQDcX2.jpg

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20201216221245im_/pbs.twimg.com/media/EpZDw_qXMAsWlLs.jpg

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20201216221245im_/pbs.twimg.com/media/EpZDw_wXcAE5ODw.jpg

I think that this case also highlights how many grifters work in the charity sector. There are many self appointed experts with no qualifications or even expertise who are found to be woefully inadequate when exposed to scrutiny.

Guardian have written up the events of day 1 of the hearing, with a nice provocative headline..

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/12/gay-rights-group-was-set-up-to-promote-transphobic-activity-court-told

I wonder where this need to repurpose the word "lesbian" has come from?

Lesbianism is the ultimate rebuff to patriarchy. It's very important that we are eradicated as a meaningful group.

The headline is provocative, but (like a previous poster) I actually thought the article was surprisingly balanced!

I think this is true, and I think also (trying to phrase carefully) there is also a sexualised element to pushing lesbians' sexual boundaries.

I'm in my mid thirties now. I strongly remember in my late teens using the (truthful) excuse of my lesbianism to politely decline the advances of random men in the street and sometimes casual acquaintances, friends of friends etc. It seemed a more tactful way of rejecting men when I couldn't be confident in how they'd react to a more personal (or more 'just fuck off') rejection.

The number of men who excitedly told me they'd slept with lesbians before... Same vibes with many of these lot.

Yes that was what I meant with my rhetorical question, but I do agree that the point about the patriarchy is apt.

@Ereshkigalangcleg "I wonder where this need to repurpose the word "lesbian" has come from?"
Because women don't deserve nice things?

I wonder where this need to repurpose the word "lesbian" has come from?

I know it was a rhetorical question, and there are a number of motivations, but the fact that people like the chap in that roll on friday thread completely ignore the fact that many men fetishise lesbians does make this worth explicitly pointing out:

some men get sexual gratification from the idea of having sex with lesbians or role playing being lesbians themselves. That is a powerful motivator

As an aside, the Guardian refers to QC not KC!

Exactly, just as some men get sexual gratification from violating women's boundaries and making women uncomfortable. That's another thing which people never acknowledge.

twitter.com/MxVivianWulf/status/1569388998363156480?s=20&t=Zkr6brkhyxR5ya6o9gWiMA

I think what they did today was lay out the skeleton of their argument which is that focusing on trans rights is actually an advance of the rights of LGB people because "gender ideology" is homophobic. I think Roberts performed relatively poorly in defending against this...

it may seem utterly insane from our standpoint but I don't think this was a bad day or a bad strategy from LGBA's point of view. It's not like they can argue they don't focus on trans people given the evidence.

Do you think they are hearing a penny drop?

AR even said to him that he had surrounded himself in an echo chamber.

And now can they please take it to the next logical step which is:

• If LGB rights are not being catered for, and the agenda of the many TQ+ focused charities is appearing actively homophobic to some? Why is it a problem for those people to just go and set up a charity of their own that focuses on them and their needs and their voices?

Why can't they do that? What does it matter when there's all these huge government funded TQ+ focused LGBT+ groups and organisations? Why is just one that is not TQ+ focused such a huge problem?

Do you think they are hearing a penny drop?

it may seem utterly insane from our standpoint

I think they need a bit more self-awareness for that.

Yes - i think we have to keep explicitly pointing out a lot of this stuff, because that's the counterpoint to the 'this literally never happens!!' brigade. I'm always conscious of the gallery here too - the silent readership who are still learning and working out where they stand.

This holds for both the sexual gratification point, the wider patriarchal discomfort/fury at being told "no", and the young people who'd like an interesting identity which positions them as the oppressed rather than the privileged oppressor.

I'd sum up yesterday as LGBA arguing that homosexuality and non-conforming gender identity are different, that there are good reasons to see it that way, that the opponents of LGBA are ideologically opposed to accepting this, and that these opponents in their opposition are motivated by unreasonable prejudice which they're blind to.

I thought Vivian Wulf live tweeted very well (it's not easy at all) and yes, I did get the sense that she (they?) realised how much Roberts was floundering, and why.

I think that Mermaids etc are right (ha, never thought I would type those words) that LGBA have focused disproportionately on fighting the TRA narrative rather than supporting LGB people generally... but if they're going to take that argument to the courts then they need to be really, really well prepared. Which would mean they had to examine some of their core principles and recast them in line with the recent evidence. Which clearly isn't going to happen.

Why can't they do that? What does it matter when there's all these huge government funded TQ+ focused LGBT+ groups and organisations? Why is just one that is not TQ+ focused such a huge problem?

Because anything that shows up the absurdity of gender identity ideology can't be allowed to exist. It certainly can't be allowed to be endorsed as legitimate.

If they lose this case it's going to be a significant psychological blow.

Nicholson is going to be a very different type of witness, I think. He's used to being questioned, and he's aggressive.

Once the T is separated from LGB, everyone is going to wake up and see it for what it truly is - The Emperor has no clothes.

The Trans ideology is a parasite - it cannot exist on it's own as society will no longer support it.

That is why Mermaids and Stonewall are terrified of the LGB Alliance and will try everything to stop it.