Celebrity surrogacy - find this a bit heartbreaking

[Nowyouwillfeel]

Irish ‘celebrity’ couple with a new baby via surrogacy. The surrogate was one of the couples sister. They have put up pictures and stories all delighted and excited but I just see raw emotion on the mothers face in the second picture and in their stories the baby is clearly rooting for her mothers breast. I have a two month old who always does this and honestly it’s breaking my heart seeing the baby search like that while the dad doesn’t even notice and that she isn’t with her mother. They took the baby home before the mother was discharged and she is nowhere to be seen.

seems so unfair on both baby and the mother who doesn’t have any children of her own.

instagram.com/bprdowling?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

One last thought. It's a recognised if obscure legal principle that no one owns the dead body after someone has died. In surrogacy people do effectively get to buy a baby. Weird.

Pregnancy can be risky and often leaves the mother with long term complications. Donor pregnancies have a significantly higher risk.

No one's need for a child is high enough for someone to make this sacrifice for them.

Post natal injuries are a shameful secret. There is so much I only found out after having children. I can't believe his sister made an informed choice, fully aware of future impact on her health. It's hard to find any objective information about surrogacy- it's all fluffy pieces about a wonderful gift. Women are socialised to make these sacrifices for men all the time- caring, cleaning, being sex objects. The latest is to be the ultimate unselfish person- but its not our responsibility to fulfil the needs of people who can't or won't carry their own children.

Yes babies are brought into the world in less than ideal situations- but the mum is doing the hard work of growing, birthing and recovering herself. Men have no idea of the impact on our bodies of this and no right to ask us to do this for them.

I’m not a fan of surrogacy. It’s exploitative to the woman carrying the baby. There was a series on iPlayer about it, I’m not sure if it’s still available, but each story was horrifying in its own way. There’s nearly always a power imbalance, be it money, age, celebrity, whatever. It’s a huge think to expect of your sister, especially since she has never had a baby of her own. A huge strain physically and emotionally.

Also of course not everybody ‘deserves’ to be a parent, there are some people who make appalling parents and should never have had kids.

Who is then?

Funny YOU wouldn't be able to deal with that separation you'd be "devastated" but it'd be fine for a newborn to, I guess if they can't speak yet it doesn't matter does it?!! This is the whole point of what's wrong with surrogacy the baby created seems to come last, it's all about the people commissioning the baby, not the baby created. Just wrong.

Post natal injuries are a shameful secret. There is so much I only found out after having children. I can't believe his sister made an informed choice, fully aware of future impact on her health. It's hard to find any objective information about surrogacy- it's all fluffy pieces about a wonderful gift. Women are socialised to make these sacrifices for men all the time- caring, cleaning, being sex objects. The latest is to be the ultimate unselfish person- but its not our responsibility to fulfil the needs of people who can't or won't carry their own children.

Totally agree with all of this.

Here’s the show to look for if anyone is interested, there’s 3 episodes. I didn’t really have strong opinions before but this show put me off. This is meant to be the light fluffy side of surrogacy, I’m sure it’s so much worse in so many cases.

The threshold for a baby to be removed from its mother at birth is very, very high . Which means social workers look at every other available option to keep mother tabs baby together n less than ideal circumstances because we know that separating an infant from its mother is not good for either of them.
a couple has no right to have a baby, gay or otherwise. A baby should have a right to its mother , a very basic human right.

Thank you, you got there before me!

"No woman in the UK gives birth with the intention of giving her baby up for adoption. It just doesn’t happen (I work in children’s services)."

This is interesting and contrasts dramatically with the US where abortion is difficult to acquire and stigmatised, so a lucrative commercial adoption market has developed.

Babies who are not BF will still instinctively root for the breast. I chose to bottle feed mine for personal reasons and they did this for a short time. As long as they are fed I don’t see what’s sad about it.

as for surrogacy I’m not a fan but there are worse things that can and are happening to children than being looked after by two living parents

@VeridicalVagabond. What a very special thing to do for your sister.

I think you are reading / seeing what you want to here. You cant possibly know the full story from a handful of pics and stories on Instagram.

I personally dont know how I feel about surrogacy other than knowing I dont think it's something I could personally do... but then I have a sibling and if they were to ask I think I would consider it because of the love I have for them.
But I was asked recently if I would consider being surrogate for a friend and my answer was firm and immediate no.

It's very easy to put your own assumptions and biases onto this according to you own situation, but honestly I think you should reserve judgement unless you know all the facts. All I see here is a happy loving family - although again, I am aware that the Instagram account may not be a true reflection of real life.

The mother needs to go to court and get a court order so the babies can't be removed from her. The American laws are weird surely no court would allow the intended parents to rock up a year later and take the twins from the women who has looked after them.

It's not that simple in the USA, I don't pretend to understand all the legal nuances but basically the laws and surrogacy contracts are heavily weighted against surrogate mothers, precisely because commissioning parents want to be guaranteed to get their baby.
I've been following this case on Tiktok too, I think because obviously there is a legal process going on, she isn't posting many updates at present.

But this isn't the first such case by any means, I have seen several in the news. Obviously covid caused a few but I don't think that is the reason why this commissioning parent hasn't rocked up to collect.
In USA when babies are born contracted by international parents the baby will automatically have citizenship, and immigration laws mean the parents will have rights thanks to their baby. So it is not uncommon, especially among Chinese, to have babies for citizenship reasons. I'll look out an article I saw that explains it better.

Meanwhile there was another baby that was with a "nanny" for over a year before his Scottish parents collected. There was talk of covid and difficulties with paperwork, but I don't buy it, British citizens who have purchased babies abroad don't usually have too much difficulty bring the baby home.

And at the start of the Ukraine war when there were news stories about surrogate born babies in bomb shelters, there were film shots of babies that clearly weren't newborns, about six months by my estimation - why hadn't they been collected?

The baby will have a better life than many of the babies born through unprotected sex between a man and woman.

I think alot of the statements being made about the damage to the baby are going to hurt alot of mothers who couldn't be with their baby because their baby was ill/ they were ill, mentally or physically/ they had other children to look after aswell/ they simply couldn't breastfeed/they had to work.

The baby appears to have two loving fathers, capable of providing, and a loving aunt. Much more than alot of babies get.

@Fififelix As far as I know that’s what she’s trying to do but there seems to be a lot of confusion over whether it falls under a breach of contract law or a family law. I think she has full parental rights at this point so a family law court wouldn’t give her any more than she already has but if they go down the breach of contract route then she opens herself up to a counter claim from the couple? Im not exactly sure of all the details and you’d think no one in their right mind would remove two babies from their home but it wouldn’t be the craziest thing the US justice system has done!

I'm not totally sure what I think about non-commercial surrogacy but at least two things about this thread astonish me:

Firstly, this was Aoife's first child. As far as I'm concerned, a woman who has never given birth is not in a position to give informed consent to this. Not ever.

Secondly I'm gobsmacked at the number of posts arguing that surrogacy must be accepted because 'what about gay men?' A male same sex couple cannot give birth to their own child. This is not some kind of divine retribution, it is biological fact.
The idea that we should create a practice that is ethically, legally and medically fraught, the long term consequences of which are (as far as I'm aware?) largely unknown, all to somehow level up the playing field for men is to me quite preposterous - and that is the kindest word I can think of.

Re birth injuries, the Masic Foundation is doing great work highlighting the problem and supporting women who have had life changing injuries.

Thread here

Guest post: "Women are expected to go home with life-changing injuries after giving birth and just get on with it" www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/4302468-Guest-post-Women-are-expected-to-go-home-with-life-changing-injuries-after-giving-birth-and-just-get-on-with-it

Awful for any woman suffering this but imagine if this was the result of kindly agreeing to lend your brother the use of your body.

There is the option of adoption (I know this has restrictions and is a very difficult process) for people unable to get/carry a pregnancy themselves. They can still become parents, without a surrogate.

However to suggest that Aoife is just a carrier and not the biological mother is ridiculous. Just because the baby wasn’t created with her egg she’s still undergone the biological process of gestating and birthing the child.

Thank you for illustrating how marginalised groups, in this instance mothers and women, absolutely need to be allowed to keep the meaning of the words that define them. If a group can't name itself, it cannot fight for its rights.

No doubt you've got lots of smug little arguments up your sleeve, perhaps appropriating adoption? (As a person whose family is shaped by adoption I'm pretty sick of this).

The reality is that a baby's first attachment is to the woman who carries it, whose voice they recognise from within the uterus - their mother. Entitled misogynists playing semantics don't actually change the reality of this.

They don’t want her around now she’s given them what they wanted. It would be too apparent that she is the mother and is who the baby wants. Apparently she is being kept away for 6 weeks. I wonder if when she holds the baby that big too long as ‘Aunty’ if they will take the baby off her.

I actually know two people that born via surrogacy. (both adults now)

One where they have two dads and another a couple where their mum couldn’t medically carry the baby.

Both have positive experiences and have been bought up with a relationship with the surrogate.

I’m not saying it always happens like that but this feed seems more how people feel personally about the matter rather having first hand experience/ knowing someone.

In the case of two dads, their aunt carried them and their sibling. Their Aunt had no desire to have children of her own but was curious the first time about pregnancy but also knew her brother has a dying desire to be a dad, at this point in time adoption for guy dads was also incredible hard. She’s active in their life and has admitted she would has no regrets.

Second case a friend of parents carried by friend. She’s seen as part of the family. She had two children to her own prior and another one after she carried by friend. She offered the parents this option and again is happy with the decision.

Parents, Birth Mothers and Children often have this debate with people and a lot seen to not acknowledge their experiences. If all parties are happy then it’s not harming anyone.

What is a crime is using a vulnerable person (emotionally, financially etc) to carry your child to benefit yourself.

Women have been exploited, used and abused forever. Surrogacy is just another example of this.

People play it down like it is somehow acceptable, because of others entitlement to a baby.

Blessed be the fruit

Yes. It is quite eye opening on both those points.