Do you talk about being GC in real life?

[Waiting4baby2]

I feel like Im going mad. I am a left leaning person, only ever read bbc and the guardian news. Generally a ‘live and let live’ sort of person who cares about equality.
I was completely in the dark about policy changes which have taken/ are taking place to put gender ID above sex/ the silencing of women and frankly the child abuse that has been taking place through affirmative care.
Now I’ve started properly looking into it I’m completely in shock at how this has been allowed to happen to women’s rights. Im also gobsmacked at the way the guardian and bbc have been so biased in the matter and failing to air any gender critical views.
I feel like now I’m aware of what’s going on I want my friends and family, particularly female members to know. However, it’s such a layered story to get across and when I have gently mentioned anything I basically get ‘well it’s none of my business, it doesn’t affect me how people want to live’ or ‘I don’t know much about it’ but are clearly disapproving. Just a question is it worth bringing some ideas to light for them or will they get there themselves? I’m feeling quite powerless but know how important this is so in a way feel duty bound to air the alternative view. What can I do?!

"the hate they seem to have for heterosexual people that they have now been deleted for on numerous threads."

😭😱😥

Won't someone think of the poor heterosexuals? 😭

Trans people really do deserve better friends that this. Misgendering him like this is a really awful thing to do.

@LateSummerLobelia your dad sounds fabulous.

You do on a regular basis. You're always promoting heterosexual males.

Thanks, he is. :)

Unlikely, I try and avoid said group as much as possible.

We've all seen you do it hearach so no point denying it.

I'm sorry for being slightly off topic and pointing out that the bbc and the guardian aren't the left, just like the democratic party isn't the left.

Do you consider imperialism to be the left?

The democratic party, the bbc and the guardian are superficially left, and use identity politics to garner support from progressives, but they are imperialist in regards to warmongering, illegal sanctions, neoliberalism, etc.

You can tell the left from the right by their international news - do they call President Maduro a dictator? Are they supporting the US proxy war against Russia? Pro NATO? Pro illegal sanctions?

I think people that follow international news and are outsiders to the western bubble, have a real sense of what is and should be the left - anti-imperialism, environment protection, human rights, etc.
Fair.org does a good job pointing out the biased misinformation of western media like the guardian and the bbc.

The wonderful women in Code Pink are on the left for sure and do important anti-empire activism.

As a woman, I am on the side of gender critical feminists. It hasn't affected me personally, but I do see the problem with TWAW not just for women but also for children that are not fully developed having "treatment" and surgery for sex change.

I go to counterpunch for other topics besides international.

I'm sorry that my post is off topic but I feel the need to address this issue with people believing identity politics is the left and being pushed to the patriarchal imperialist right wing because of the fake 'woke' left.

Thank you for reading 😊

Do what?

Do what?

Ahh, I see you're now doing one of the other things you always do.

Wilfully obtuse.

I am sure many would agree with you, both that id pol aren't properly leftist thinking, and also that much of what passes for "the left" certainly the Democrats for example, are actually supporters of global capitalism.

However - there is only so far you can go with that, pragmatically. The fact is that id pol has captured almost all of the left at every level, even people like ol' Jeremy Corbyn who was hailed as potentially returning the LP to real leftism.

There has been a shift in the political left through the 20th century that is now coming to fruition, where id pol has replaced other modes of thinking to a large extent. So maybe you can think "the fake left" whenever someone says "the left" but in real terms I do not think they are wrong to use that category that way.

Strictly speaking much of the political right isn't any kind of conservative, either.

I would also say that a lot of the modern anti-empire stuff is really just more id pol, but maybe that is outside of the scope of this discussion.

Unfortunately, you can't identify your way into being a straight man.

I have discussed my GC views with friends and to a lesser extent with family. I have advised my manager if ever I am requested to use pronouns mine are what/ever. I have discussed the Alison Bailey tribunal case and the closing down of the GIDS service with trusted colleagues. I spent a while feeling I was going mad after Stonewall had refined homosexuality as same gender attraction. That absolutely did it for me - along with the failure to protect vulnerable young adolescents from the harm of puberty blockers etc etc etc

babyjellyfish

So when the one who started the discussion suggested that trans women should be allowed to compete in women's sport provided that their results aren't taken into account, I said, "OK, but what about swimming? Only so many lanes in the pool. Athletics? Only so many lanes on the track. The Olympics? Only a certain number of qualification spots. For every trans woman who is allowed to compete in a women's category, whether they win or not, a female athlete doesn't get to be there." She admitted she hadn't thought of that.

Then when we talked about changing rooms and toilets, the TWAW one said, "I think everyone should be allowed to get changed wherever they feel most safe and comfortable." So I said, "What about women who don't feel safe or comfortable sharing those spaces with male people? Where do they go? Do they not also have a right to feel safe and comfortable, or do only trans people have that right?" She didn't have an answer to that.

Good for you for pointing out the ridiculousness of these suggestions. It still shocks me how seemingly intelligent people will tie themselves in knots to ensure that male people always get what they want. You can almost hear the panic in their heads 'but, but...what about the poor menz'...

The utter naivety of thinking that nobody would ever take advantage of 'people should get changed wherever they feel most safe and comfortable'. Does your friend never read the news? It would be great if we lived in a peaceful utopia where men didn't offend against women, but that's not reality.

Yes but I go in with a 'these are my views and I'm not trying to impose them on anyone else' approach.

So wider issues that affect society like prisons etc I leave until I've got the lay of the land.

How would you ever know someone was
a) heterosexual
b) male

those words mean nothing in your mind

Yes, I want women to have the right to be recognised as a sex class, so that the difference between TW and W is accepted where biology matters.

And they say they are being denied the right to exist!

Well, it does seem very one sided.

I am estranged from my brother for being a terf bigot... he's not trans, just a wokebro MRA.

Said he's only going to talk to me again if I renounce my views. Well, fuck him.

Same an old female friend who was a woman in a straight relationship (albeit bisexual) is now man. I feel nothing but happiness for him but ot feels strange to say him when I knew her as she. I would out of respect though.

If I saw her ( not been in touch for ages) I'd happily go for a pint and avoid too much gender talk beyond glad you've done what you wanted to do.

You can do what you like when you change the definition of straight and man!

Change language change everything...

I live in Canada so I can’t talk about it in real life. I have a small circle of English-speaking mum friends in an otherwise almost completely French town and they are all 100% TWAW, no debate. I keep quiet about my views for the sake of my children having friends to play with (they’re not in school yet). The one time I made what I thought was a completely harmless comment about JKR, my closest friend cut me off immediately.

Your dad sounds amazing @LateSummerLobelia

I did post a few things on socials around the time Lisa Littman's paper was first published. Posted to a mostly silent void and some whataboutery. Three people pushed back (two 'sex work is work' third wavers and one gay man) - all three criticising LL's motives and method and me for posting. This topic attracts (a) silence from people who are usually pretty opinionated and (b) a lot of bad faith (and, frankly deeply privileged) philosophical posturing with no actual engagement with reality or concerns raised. (Even when those concerns are being articulated by someone you supposedly know well who has given you no reason to believe they are a bigot. 🙄)

I loved Jack Appleby's tweet about left leaning women either becoming bigots overnight or maybe we are missing something important. I misquote but you get the gist.

These days I prefer to speak to people IRL - friends, family, work colleagues - facts in hand. I support grass roots organisations when it comes to child safeguarding.