Antipodean fruit grower statement

[nothingcomestonothing]

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

i listened to the stream while doing the gardening yesterday (all 4 hours) and mumsnet is mentioned at around 0.40.

Thanks for this. Talking about Mumsnet and female dominated sites, and the enthusiasm (I've redacted the actual term he uses but it's very apt) that TRAs have to dominate sites such as Kiwi Farms JM says.

"That would be amplified x1000 if it was directed at women"

It must be exhausting to have to not only profess the 'truth' of your alternative reality that x site does x when you want rid of it for inconveniently broadcasting unhelpful information that messes with your alternative reality.

You also have to go and create and post the bloody evidence yourself, to make it look to others that it does what you alleged it does.

MN's been dealing with this for bloody years: activists joining MN, posting something intentionally awful that would never be tolerated here or heard by an actual regular poster, and then screenshotting it as evidence that 'MN is really as bad as I say it is!' seconds before the mods delete it.

What can you do with a group who live in a world this distorted and with so little integrity or morals or ability to cope with anything but a reflection of themselves? It really is, as Helleofabore says, like dealing with toddlers. Toddler thinking and toddler rage. 'My invisible friend did it' - with the tech skills to go and create false evidence to prove it. This will be finally the step of progress required: systems and awareness of how to deal not with 'alleged' and falsely created problems, but to recognise and effectively manage the behaviour at source. As MN knows well, you cannot be reasonable with someone who lacks the capacity for reasonability.

Ah, Trans Crime UK have the case on their site. It’s Ponting, not Pontin.

Exactly Rufus you’re a fair and balanced* poster and like to see fair play. Likely because you have nothing to hide, like most of us, you’re happy for the fact backed info to stay, and grown arsed adults make their own decisions on where they get their information.

*…..except if you now tell me you like the (mashed) BWH <shudder> in which case I retract ‘balanced’ 😉

Fuck me no humpty

im sooooooo balanced when it comes to BWH

I'd personally do my best not to insult even the most reprehensible paedophile, but lots of people feel very differently, and although we can debate the approach, it should be very clear that abusing children is not by any means equivalent to using foul language when discussing someone who's done so.

Likely because you have nothing to hide, like most of us, you’re happy for the fact backed info to stay, and grown arsed adults make their own decisions on where they get their information.

I'd like to see an end to the 'hate speech' on that site and elsewhere though including in the real world and on sites/other media that use hate speech and derogatory terminology against women (slag, bitch, cunt, wh**e, chick, etc.).

I wonder how many KFs are in it because they have a craving to see justice done and how many really just like milking 'lolcows' (and note the female terminology there).

I think the framing it of "hate speech" is a big mistake. Endless derogatory slurs in all directions, and at all sorts of identity groups, sure, but that doesn't make it "hate speech". One of the key characteristics of KF is how NON-hateful it is, compared to your average Woke space.

Only one side is calling for anyone's rights to be infringed due to hating them here and it's not KF.

KF will call people names, but they don't want to actually DO anything to them.

(My personal read of the language is that it's a form of defence against people wanting to win arguments by claims of taking offence - it filters out a certain form of disruption. No-one can object to the way anyone else expresses themselves, and appeal to mods. The only possible response to something you don't like is saying something you do like in reply. Mind you, the mods are quite heavy-handed. They're not filtering language, but there are still lots of quite strict rules. The sort of thread disruption people can get away with on this board would not be tolerated in most places in KF - thread bans are liberally used.)

And, yes, the vast majority of KF users just want to laugh at people. But some people are just not funny, and they do end up getting serious about justice. They do record some very dark stuff there.

The sort of thread disruption people can get away with on this board would not be tolerated in most places in KF - thread bans are liberally used.)

Yes, I wish that was a thing here.

You've put wayyyyy too much thought into this.

I think the framing it of "hate speech" is a big mistake. Endless derogatory slurs in all directions, and at all sorts of identity groups, sure, but that doesn't make it "hate speech". One of the key characteristics of KF is how NON-hateful it is, compared to your average Woke space.

That's why I used inverted commas. Perhaps hate speech is not the right expression but the use of words like 'bitch', 'slag', 'cow' etc. more generally enforces a perception of women as lesser, or animal-like, or for men's convenience (and so on) - and similar for derogatory language against particular ethnic or racial groups or people with a disability does similar. I'm not excusing it.

I always note the relative lack of specific derogatory terms for white, able-bodied men.

You've put wayyyyy too much thought into this.

Gee thanks :). I wonder if you'd say that if I was agreeing with you?

Come on Yet, we've established that 'thought' is bad and wrong...

Lolcow comes from cash cow. It's nothing to do with women, seriously.

People who use the term 'policing' never bother to articulate whether they mean complaining about something or actually banning it, or something else. It's almost as if they haven't really thought it through.

I think Spartacus is making a reasonable general point, but this language is not confined to Kiwi Farms. There aren't many accusations that you can level at KF that you can't also level at Twitter, Facebook etc.

I agree that picking on "cow" is a stretch - it's used equally for men as part of the "milking" and "farm" metaphor. Sure, you can have a general feminist treatise about the exploitation of females of all species, but the fact that we do milk cows in real life is not really saying anything about KF, I think.

I always note the relative lack of specific derogatory terms for white, able-bodied men.

Yes. Although again, KF specific?

I think KF may actually have a few. First one that springs to mind you see a lot is "soyboy", which I think would only be applied to white able-bodied men.

That's all I can come up with for the moment, mind.

I think Spartacus is making a reasonable general point, but this language is not confined to Kiwi Farms. There aren't many accusations that you can level at KF that you can't also level at Twitter, Facebook etc.

Yes. What you see there in terms of language is the natural outcome of not having rules about language when that's what's in the language.

KF didn't invent the language.

Given that restrictions are not the order of the day, the only way to restore equity would be to sign up on KF and start popularising slurs for white able-bodied men. Sounds like a project :)

The poster literally said they "want to put an end" to the use of those words. What do YOU think that means?

This is a weird tangent we've gjbe on anyway. Derogatory language of all types is all over the internet.

I think KF may actually have a few. First one that springs to mind you see a lot is "soyboy", which I think would only be applied to white able-bodied men.

Bugman
Cuck
Incel

There's probably more. I don't have the time or inclination to read ALL the threads on there.

The culture of writing on that site is to present as cynically and misanthropically as possible. To appear to not give a shit about anyone or anything. That means a lot of abrasive comments and vicious language. But if you read between the lines it's clearly just a bravado over-the-top persona for 99% of the users.

And as for doxxing, as far as I have seen the information they share is all publicly available information online? I have never seen users physically stalking targets like you get on 4chan sometimes.

Derogatory, offensive language, sexist and of other kinds is all over the internet, on the streets, in the playgrounds, in homes and workplaces. It is everywhere.

I don’t use it myself and I have less respect for those who do use than for those who don’t but eradicating such language and the thoughtless hostility towards others which is behind it, is a major project and surely beyond the scope of this thread?

If I was going to start banning offensive and harmful sites surely I would begin with mindgeek/porn hub and only fans, moving on to Reddit and Twitter etc KF would be way down that list in terms of harm done to women and children.