Let Women Swim

[IcakethereforeIam]

Just seen this article on the Critic about women only swimming sessions. Apparently, there's going to be a meeting at the Ladies Pond in London on Saturday 27th August regarding the decision to let men self I'd into the space.

I've not seen a thread on this.

thecritic.co.uk/let-women-swim/

Thanks for posting this, OP. They won't get anywhere easily while Edward Lord (they/them) is in whatever position it is Edward Lord occupies at the City of London Corp. Someone very recently resurrected a Zombie thread on here about local Jewish women taking a case out about this. AFAIK that never happened: maybe now is a better time for it?

There is also a petition on the government petition website. Can’t link here as it is not allowed.

Excellent tip-off, OP! I must dig out my old Man Friday t-shirt.

I doubt anything will change right away, but it's important to keep this in people's minds. And hats off to Ms Braverman, that really was a brave speech.

I find it so inherently male that males who identify as transwomen, or even just non binary, decide to insert themselves into the female swimming area rather than just the mixed sex area. It just goes to show their complete lack of respect & regard for women. Sorry, their 'fellow' women! ( eye roll )

Really hope they are successful in getting their female only space!

Indeed.

It's not about having a place to swim for these people, is it. It's about eliminating any place where women might feel entitled to meet without others sitting in.

Quite. As another tweet today celebrates: it is nothing more than male people gleefully and quite intentionally ensuring that females have nothing and enjoying the power over them.

Hence demonstrating too their absolute belief that sex is a binary unchanged thing, unrelated to gender, and that there is a hierarchy that gives them entitlement to enjoy over the class they see as subordinate, regardless of whatever else they profess.

It's merely a matter of time regarding how long we intend to permit male people to behave in this unpleasant, oppressive, discriminatory way to females and to own more resources on the grounds of their being male. That's all. Its already ugly and unjustifiable, and making a complete nonsense of any waffle about 'inclusion' or 'tolerance'.

I think this is one of the most cruel things that a TW can do.

There are lots of mixed sex swim sessions and lots of woman go to these. So there is no reason for TW not to attend these sessions.

Often women who go to woman only swim sessions are doing so for a good reason.

Men being included into these sessions excludes woman.

How many TW actually now use Hampstead Heath ladies pond? How many woman noonger use the pond because it is no longer single sex.

It's actions like this, that show that there is no respect for females.

But we are told we need to accept it or stay at home!

The TW could have shown some kind of interest in inclusion and the needs of the sex class they claim to identify with.

You know: negotiated times. Sessions. Left some space for the females they left with nothing, who now can't use the pool at all.

It still would have been invading the female only pool as a third target for a personal agenda and validation when there were two other options available, and removing a female only environment that they wanted so much yet were very happy to deprive females of. It still would have been a very selfish act.

But it would have shown some capacity to give a fuck for others.

As it stands: it's obvious. It's no more than a powerplay, an act of dominance. And it's wholly sex based. Exclusionary. Discriminatory. Indefensible.

For the pond or for swimming and changing rooms? I can only find the latter. Interesting browsing through all those petitions.

Yes, didn't look at all of the open parliamentary petitions, but the "Require swimming venues to maintain single-sex or private changing facilities" was the closest that I could find - and may be of interest to readers of this thread anyway.

The TW could have shown some kind of interest in inclusion and the needs of the sex class they claim to identify with.

Mainly taking the opportunity to post this apposite cartoon - Twitter approved - on-target enough to earn Colin Wright a suspension.

But the article on this subject by Eliza Mondegreen that the cartoon was created for is good too.

Trans Activism and the Road Not Taken

Thanks for the link, a very good article and great cartoon.

Also signed the petition mentioned above.

“Require swimming venues to maintain single sex” should be enough in the search of petitions.parliament for those of interested. It doesn’t have many signatures at the moment so please do look it up. It would be great to have enough for a discussion in parliament.

How did it go today?

Seems to have gone wonderfully, as it's provoked union leader Dr Jo Grady (UCU) to speak out in the strongest possible terms against... the act of picketing.

I'm not kidding here. She actually used that exact word without ever thinking, "hang on, what the hell am I typing? I head up a union. I can't condemn picketing!" She then admitted she hadn't even been there today, after proclaiming the pickets she hadn't seen were intimidating.

tweets

The ladies pond is a safe, serene, special place. People picketing it today against its trans inclusive stance are being a nuisance at best, and intimidating or harassing at worst. Leave the pond and its patrons alone. Just let people live in peace.

I go frequently. I can’t imagine how fuming I’d be if I had to squeeze my way past them today to get in. It would have put me in a terrible mood and completely ruined something that is otherworldly and blissful. Miserable people trying to make everyone else miserable. Bog off!

Not to mention how horrible this must be for anyone who feels targeted by this group. Facing a gauntlet of people who question your right to exist peacefully and live a full life. Awful, just awful.

I also doubt those picketing even use it. Just turned up to ruin everyone’s day.

Jo Grady broadening the bandwidth of what it is to be a Union Official

I had several friends there and they tell me it went really well. A bit of mild protesting but overall a lovely positive day.

It was a lovely afternoon; hundreds of women hanging out together, and just a handful of brave people showing the opposing view - but without aggro, as far as I saw.

We set off in a long procession, and as we passed the men's pool, where two or three men were guarding the entrance, some women challenged them angrily (how to not be angry?) and of course they responded in kind.

I've heard that in "Man Friday" actions - when on Fridays some women self-IDed as men and jokingly ( I think) demanded access to the men's pond - the men were mostly sympathetic once things were explained to them. But today maybe they were alarmed to see such a crowd of women!

Of course, there are the "irreducibles" - the dyed-in-the-wool male supremacists, the porn-addicted predators, etc, but I think we're missing an important resource, ie the uncommitted bystander: most people probably have no idea what's going on, and it's up to us to tell them when we get the chance - the people who profit from this nonsense are doing a good job of keeping it in the dark.

Anyway, I noticed that we were all talking to each other and ignoring the passers-by, some of whom looked interested; so I started going up to people and saying "Do you want to know what this is all about?", and they did, and I explained. They listened and understood our point of view, and seemed pleased to have been approached.

Trouble was, spending time on these conversations, I got left behind, didn't know the route we were meant to take, missed the speeches and got the bus home.

This was my experience, and I'd be really interested to read anyone else's account of the day.

I've heard that in "Man Friday" actions - when on Fridays some women self-IDed as men and jokingly ( I think) demanded access to the men's pond

They did, it all started on Mumsnet!

Rather enlightening, isn’t it?

considering it looked to be a wide range of women protesting from
all the different aspects of the needs of women for this to remain female only.

Facing a gauntlet of people who question your right to exist peacefully and live a full life. Awful, just awful.

I wonder why it's awful for male people using the female only pond (instead of the two others they also have access to) but not for the female people who cannot use a mixed sex space, and also do not want to face a gauntlet of male people who question your right to exist peacefully and live a full life as a female who cannot enter mixed sex spaces to swim and does not have a couple of other choices of pool they can go to instead?

Awful for males, but ok for females.

Never TQ+ stuff is it? Always just basic misogyny.

Imagine she'd said this, instead, a few years ago:

The ladies pond is a safe, serene, special place. People picketing it today against its exclusively female ^stance are being a nuisance at best, and intimidating or harassing at worst. Leave the pond and its patrons alone. Just let people live in peace.

I go frequently. I can’t imagine how fuming I’d be if I had to squeeze my way past them today to get in. It would have put me in a terrible mood and completely ruined something that is otherworldly and blissful. Miserable people trying to make everyone else miserable. Bog off!

Not to mention how horrible this must be for anyone who feels targeted by this group. Facing a gauntlet of people who question your right to exist peacefully and live a full life. Awful, just awful.^
^
(Yes, I've made one tiny tweak.)^

Miserable people trying to make everyone else miserable. Bog off! so says Dr Jo Grady union leader. Clearly she wasn't there - if she'd even looked at pictures she'd have known it was a joyful and happy event - would have cheered most people up to see I think :)

If there were men guarding the men's pond to stop any women entering we need some friendly (to us) transmen to try to gain entry. If they aren't allowed in what possible justification could there be when the boot's on the other foot? If tw must be allowed into the women's pond then tm must also be allowed in the men's.

It's no more than a powerplay, an act of dominance. And it's wholly sex based. Exclusionary. Discriminatory. Indefensible.

Of course it is. That's what so utterly self defeating. Best stand back and let them carry right on shooting themselves in the foot until hopelessly crippled.

I've signed the petition, it was easy to find, I just googled 'Require swimming venues to maintain single sex' as a PP had suggested. The petition came up straightaway.