Is there any sensible advice on how to parent tomboys in the current climate?

[Neithhotep]

I have a 10-year old daughter. Short hair, plays football, wears her brother's hand-me-downs, don't think she owns a dress.

Over the next few years, as she and her peers get access to social media, she will be inundated with the suggestion that SHE MIGHT BE A BOY. Her peers will suggest it. Her teachers and authority figures will support it. She will get her period and her body will start to change and she will be asked if she's comfortable with the changes, because if not, she might be a boy! What young teen would be strong minded enough to say no?

I feel as though my baby is about to run a gauntlet, and I'm not completely sure how to parent her through it.

Hi my daughter is sporty and wears boys clothes. She's a bit older as she's 13.

She's autistic so she's particularly vulnerable to this issue but she's home educated which takes the school aspect away.

All I have done with her is talk about how there is no wrong way to be a girl. She has a great saying now which is that she doesn't wear boys clothes, they're my clothes! There are quite a lot of positive role models in women's sport right now. We won the Euros , my daughter plays cricket and plenty of women cricketers choose to wear their hair short and do not conform to overt gender stereotyping which helps.

My daughter does access social media, hates JKR, can't bear for me to overtly talk about women's rights or trans women accessing women's spaces. She does see the issue with sport though. She is a county cricketer, she knows that boys have a physical advantage.

I do hope that with the Cass Report and the closure of Tavistock that schools will take a more cautious approach to affirmation.

Good luck.

Thank you @lifeturnsonadime . Interesting that your daughter sees the sport issue, if not the other issues. I like "they're not boy's clothes, they're my clothes". I'm going to use that. Thank you.

I've raised both my children to see and understand stereotypes for what they are - a crude shorthand/code for sex. Not something to restrict what they choose to do, play with, or wear.

They seem to understand this quite well, and to an extent the curriculum is supportive of this (I'm in Scotland) - there's a fair bit on challenging stereotypes.

I've talked a little with my older child about 'gender' issues - he thinks its nonsense but knows to be polite and respectful towards others who think differently.

This is all pretty heartbreaking to read. I was a tomboy in the 70s. Sport is obviously a strong point to focus on although I wasn't especially sporty - liked getting muddy, being out on my bike , that kind of thing - but I was more bookish, really.

It's very unlikely that your child would be told that they're a boy, trans issues are barely talked about in school now. If your child does turn out to be a boy you'd probably want to support them. Also the changes your body goes through with puberty would make trans people uncomfortable with the gender assigned to it as well as the changes, cis people can also be uncomfortable during puberty.

To be honest, it doesn’t really what hair style or clothes your daughter wears, there may well be those comments just because she has an interest different to other girls.

I agree that you should make sure she is well aware that girls can look however they want and still be girls. That she will be female all her life and that simply can never change. But she can choose whatever interest (obviously not ones that are harmful to her) and whatever occupation and to not let anyone tell her ‘girls don’t do x’.

We set strict rules on social media use and phone use. Despite the meltdowns because their friends ‘all’ had it (errrr, no! They didn’t!). We had parental controls on everything, they needed permission to download any new app etc, and we also said that there is no access to social media before the age rating. They could call and text and see their friends, they didn’t need an app to do it. I was wary of in-game interaction too.

It meant they were never involved in the bullying by social media or WhatsApp/Snapchat that was always being investigated by the school. Within the first two months of secondary, they realised how many times other children went too far.

Keep up the football. It is great! I hope you have a club that is really and actively supportive of girls playing. Maybe look at scouts?

Good luck.

If your child does turn out to be a boy

A girl cannot turn out to be a boy.

There is a whole load of nonsense talked about this. They have always been tomboys who were into boys things but it didn’t make them boys. It’s just that that in the human personality there are what we might typify as both both ‘male’ and ‘female’ characteristics. I know the swimmer, Sharon Davies, says she was a right tomboy growing up, but it didn’t make her male. Just now we have a very small but very vocal minority group who are yelling about something that has become fashionable among the elite. One day in about 20 years time (or less) when the NHS is deluged with court cases over the harm they have done to young girls who have ‘transitioned’ and regretted it, we will see the fallout. Keep your young girl safe from this nonsense

It's very unlikely that your child would be told that they're a boy

For my child, it was their peers who told them they must be the opposite sex. It started at 10 and continued for a few years. Luckily despite how very upsetting it was because this was a brand new environment. As parents we are not gender conforming in many aspects and were able to point that out. That helped.

It wasn’t even coming from a ‘trans’ aspect as such. It was just children with a strong opinion on what boys did and what girls did. Our child was brought up with none of that, and came from an area where it was nowhere near as prevalent.

But that questioning has the potential to significant undermine a child’s confidence in themselves if they are anxious about fitting in or anxious about anything.

@Neithhotep I have a DD the same age. She's never been stereotypically 'girly', has short hair, wouldn't touch a dress or hairclips with a barge pole, very sporty, very strong STEM interests, only been friends with boys until the end of year 4 when she made a few friends who are girls.

She's also possibly autistic but that's by the by.

She's had comments across the years about her clothes and I've used it as a chance to blast away the idea that there are 'girl's clothes' and 'boys clothes'. I've been clear that she just IS a girl and that can't change. Ever. Also that she's wonderful (I don't say 'as you are' as I don't want to imply she should change in any way).

It's hard knowing she'll face more of this online. It worries me deeply. So following this with interest.

I too, am concerned about this ‘Tomboy being a boy’ shite. Who the fuck thought that one up?

I have a 12 yo girl who wears a mixture of clothes bought from the boys as well those from the girls section and her older brothers hand me down. I wouldn’t describe her a a tomboy though, she has longer hair and wears some make up.

My advice would be to continue sport, she takes a pride in being fast, strong and able to climb, run etc and I think this will help as her body starts to change as well as setting up good habits. If she is playing mixed sex football at the moment think about how to continue as she gets older.

Look at good female role models, there are some good books out there plus role models that I have / had e.g. Annie Lennox. We talk a lot about stereotypes and discuss it when she comes across it at school and around her.

Restrict / monitor internet usage and keep her off TikTok.

Review materials being taught in school. In year six the parents were sent details of what was being taught. I raised a couple of questions with the school, they were taking a sensible approach and I discussed it with her.

We’ve talked about being transgender, there are children in her school who identify as boys or are non binary and I have stated my view is that everyone deserves respect and to be treated equitably however it is impossible to change sex.

I think the fact that Tomboy has the word boy in it has led to this.

I was a Tomboy too, as is my daughter. Gender stereotypes are crap.

Really really awful that girls who don't conform with tick tock notions of 'girl' are being told they are not girls with potentially horrific consequences.

Maybe you could avoid using the term "tomboy" and discuss with her the inherent sexism in that term, which describes a girl with not sufficiently feminine behaviour (as deemed by a sexist misogynist society) as being "boy-like".

definitely off tiktok!!!

I restricted social media a lot and then went hard on accepting bodies, showcasing lesbian role models and different sorts of women etc etc. We have come through the other side.

It's a shame that we have to change language because of gender ideology.

I have never perceived Tom Boy as sexist.

Indeed, it's fucking rude to women being themselves! There is nothing wrong with women presenting however they damn well like.

I was a Tomboy too

yep. Lots of us around.

It's not to do with gender ideology, the term tomboy was sexist in the 80s when it was applied to me and I rejected it then as I do now. It's the flip side of calling boys that aren't sufficiently masculine "sissies". They're just children with diverse interests. No need for a label, which only serves to enforce the idea that some activities/interests/behaviours are for boys and some for girls.

Me too, and I was happy to be.

A girl will never be a boy .

@lifeturnsonadime I agree that gender identity is constant and you discover it rather than change your gender. So in this instance the child would have always been a boy but only realised recently. This is different to biological sex which is your sex assigned at birth this also cannot change. But it is widely accepted that we address people based on gender identity rather than biological sex because that would be very degrading to reduce people to genitals.

Respectfully I completely disagree with every word you have typed.

People can present as they wish and do what they wish.

The ideology you promote encourages young girls who don't conform to gender stereotypes to mutilate their bodies in order to 'be' something they can never be.

My younger daughter is a tomboy. I never was and her older sister isn’t! She’s very sporty/energetic and happiest in dirty clothes bashing round the park on her bike.

One thing we do is never comment on it - obviously we might say something like Amy loves karate or Amy wants to be a footballer when she’s older but we’d never say ‘Amy is a tomboy because she likes these activities that are more commonly associated with boys.’ She’s just ‘Amy’ before she’s a tomboy or anything else. We see it as her personality.

I try to make sure we read a lot of different stories and watch different characters on TV, so she has girls and women she can identify herself as being similar to, rather than the confusion of thinking ‘hang on, how come everyone who does/wears x is a boy and I like to do that but I’m a girl?’ Also I don’t really encourage iPads/tablets/computer time freely, I try to push them more towards clubs/playing with friends/activities with me or dad. Even for adults the minefield that is the Internet can be difficult to manage. For a child it’s an accident waiting to happen.