Is there any sensible advice on how to parent tomboys in the current climate?

[Neithhotep]

I have a 10-year old daughter. Short hair, plays football, wears her brother's hand-me-downs, don't think she owns a dress.

Over the next few years, as she and her peers get access to social media, she will be inundated with the suggestion that SHE MIGHT BE A BOY. Her peers will suggest it. Her teachers and authority figures will support it. She will get her period and her body will start to change and she will be asked if she's comfortable with the changes, because if not, she might be a boy! What young teen would be strong minded enough to say no?

I feel as though my baby is about to run a gauntlet, and I'm not completely sure how to parent her through it.

Yes, but many of us over 35 have been quite deliberately NOT using the word tomboy to describe girls who behave/dress/think/etc. in certain ways, for quite some time, because it panders to the idea that being like this, all the time or some of the time, needs a specific label and is outside of a norm of girlhood. Which it doesn't, and isn't.

How is it not sexist? It's a ridiculous expression feeding into boys' things and girls' things, which posters are perpetuating

(" my daughter is so into STEM")

I don’t know if I would say this. The true joy of being a girl for my little daughter is rolling round the garden and playing. For my older daughter it’s an intensive ballet class. Saying the ‘true joy’ of being a woman is having a baby wouldn’t suit either of them. I mean what does that mean for those women who can’t or don’t have children? Women aren’t just mothers.

Lisa Selin Davis wrote a book about tomboys. She is interviewed by Stella O'Malley & Sascha Ayad (well, it's more of a gentle exploratory discussion) on their wonderfully therapeutic & gentle podcast "Gender: A Wider Lens."

The podcast is well worth a listen generally - their ideas are balm for the soul.

Tom boys were never considered to BE boys or lesser girls.

Non gender conforming girls now are told they could be boys.

You may see tom boy as sexist, I don't, not in the context of how I lived my life as a girl in the 80s. As someone said upthread it was and is a still useful descriptor for a girl who doesn't conform to gender stereotypes. People never thought tom boys were NOT really girls, did they?

100 times this! I hate the term "tomboy" so much, it is so stigmatising and so much cementing gender roles. Blerch.

exactly!

Dear god, tell me you are taking the piss.

I was a tomboy, too, and undoubtedly would have been sucked into this trans thing, not least because I was a little lesbian growing up in an evangelical christian household. Thank god there was no internet then.

It was tough growing up, but I am glad to have functioning nipples, womb and the ability to orgasm.

No right or wrong way to be a girl: exactly. Show her role models like Issy Wong to illustrate the point.
femalecricket.com/women-cricket-news/17245-who-is-18-year-old-issy-wong-who-dreams-to-become-the-fastest-bowler-in-the-world-cricket.html

To be honest this is the best way forward.

I know a teen who's getting her GCSEs tomorrow. No one has ever thought of her as a Tom boy, she has extremely long hair, but has always preferred boys' styles for clothes and joined cubs and scouts rather than brownies and guides.

As her parents have always let her choose her style (she wore a tux to a wedding aged 6) she's incredibly clear she's female and indeed chose a backpack recently specially designed for
Women's backs.

I feel that there's always been honest conversations about what sexism is from a young age and so she knows that she doesn't have to conform to sexist stereotypes. (She refused to learn about female and male French grammar saying it was sexist and got thrown out of class )

Her style reminds me completely of a green day fan (is one too) from the 90s. She'd otherwise be called non binary, bar the hair, except she's so clear it's just what she likes. Parents did wonder and ask her if she was trans some years ago apparently but I do think it was prior to the trans craze and she was clueless.

Lots if exposure to well known gender non conforming people and crushing sexist attitudes.

You're joking, right?
My DD 8 is also a bit of a tomboy (hate that word) and a child two years ahead of her has been told by their parents that they can change sex.
I have firmly told her that X's parents are really silly and having long/short hair doesn't make you into a boy/girl.
I will continue to repeat this. I will introduce other concepts before she is pushed into them by school/other children.

Issy Wong is amazing.

Definitely a role model for my cricketing daughter!

I would be making damn sure any school she went to was not riddled with gender woo.

1976 and 9 years old I was thrilled when I was called a Tomboy or told 'you should have been a boy' or mistaken for a boy. I would have been very easily sucked in to all this. Although I hate getting old I'm glad I was able to be a child at that time Although I hated being told I couldn't do 'such and such' because 'you are a girl '
Honestly, we are going backwards.

Being a girl and a woman has nothing to do with clothes, hairstyle, hobbies, likes and dislikes. Being a woman is being an adult human female, being a girl is being a young human female.
I find it all very sexist now. I was a teenager in the 80s it wasn't perfect but none of us were restricted by clothes and hair styles.
Stereotypes are just that sterotypes. Pushing against them and smashing them is what we need to encourage our children to do.
Most women I know don't conform to sterotypes. I have always had short pixie hair. My hair doesn't grow very well and it annoys me (sensory issues) so I have it short and I like it short.
I loved my Doc Martin's in the 90s and wore them with leggings with a floral dress over!
I would keep giving the message that sex matters and you cannot change sex. If you have read Invisible Women this is great to use for examples in everyday life.
Transgender Trend have some great resources so you could read up on those too.
www.transgendertrend.com/

Gender non conforming women are not all homosexual either. We should not fall into the trap of telling our daughter's that if they want to wear their hair short and prefer trousers to dresses that they must be gay. (might be an over reaction but that is increasingly jarring.)

Didn't expect so many responses. Really interesting to read through.

I have never really thought about the word 'tomboy'. It's not a word we use at home but I do agree that it's a shorthand that most people would understand. That's why I used it in the title of this thread. I think I avoid using it "in real life" because I instinctively dislike the idea that a girl who likes stereotypically boy things is somehow separate from 'default girls'.

To the posters who doubt this will be an issue - I respectfully disagree. My older daughter is now 16 and I know first hand the pressure young girls are under from all directions. 3 years ago my eldest was non-binary, or maybe he / him, and definitely pan and queer, and all sorts of letters to the right of LGB. She threw out all her Harry Potter books and put flags up on her bedroom wall. We had always been able to agree or disagree and talk things through but suddenly there was nothing to talk about because she knew the truth and I was a silly old bigot for asking questions. With eldest I trod softly, listened to her, very carefully asked the odd question that may have planted a seed, and hoped like hell that she would work it out. She did. She's now the same non-conforming girl but very definitely a girl who looks forward to being a woman and then an old lady. She thinks much the same as I do - that you can express yourself any way you like but you can't change sex, and that sex is the basis for discrimination against women. You can't identify out of that.

I suppose I'll do the same again. But I worry. I think I was lucky once. My friend's daughter who is the same age as my eldest is now binding and talking about hormone therapy and top surgery. And my 10yo is a different person to her big sister. Less sure of herself, and less open with me.

Good point.

@FemaleAndLearning what age would you recommend the girl guide for? I have looked at it before, my nieces are 13 so perhaps too old.

I also have a daughter, same age, same issue. My plan is to keep her off the internet as much as possible. Absolutely no social media - I've explained to her and my son why. I've been talking to them both about this ideology for a while - they both understand that humans can't change sex and that 'gender' is based on regressive stereotypes. I plan to help her to do as much sport, music, cubs & other In Real Life hobbies as possible. Lots of in-person play dates with carefully curated friendship group. But fundamentally - minimal internet exposure and lots of truth / facts

I think exposing your daughter to positive female role models will help. The Lionesses being a brilliant example...strong sporty successful women.

What is the relationship between your two daughters like? Does she open up to her sister? Your older DD could be a good role model for her.

Hi my daughter's are 12 and 14 and still dip in the book when they have questions. You can get a second hand copy so I would still say it is a good investment for your nieces.

They don’t come for your children… just parent her as you parent her. And don’t start panicking.
I coach a football team of 20 or so 12/13 year old girls, most are ‘tomboys’ or at least sporty and not into a lot of stuff other girls their age are into and they are all very comfortable in their own skin.
None of them want to be boys - far from it in fact. They definitely perceive girls and women as better in many ways.
They know trans kids exist, occasionally we’ll play a team with a boy in it - trans or not but it doesn’t make them want to emulate that. A couple of the girls are/ will be gay - there’s no doubt there, but their team mates just accept them for who they are and don’t care.
Just support your kid for who they are, and don’t overthink it.

‘I think exposing your daughter to positive female role models will help. The Lionesses being a brilliant example...strong sporty successful women.’

this is a given, positive role models for all children. Although one dad of our team is worried that because so many of the Lionesses are gay, it might turn his daughter gay. 😅🤔 I think he’s just stung that his Leah Williamson crush is going nowhere ( as if it ever was!)