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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to complain about Drag Queen Story Time

181 replies

ElizabethJaneHenchard · 18/08/2022 14:17

I'm going to a venue tonight that is hosting the Drag Queen Story Time later this year.
How do I complain about this, without seeming like a right-wing reactionary?
Do I hand in a letter, talking about safeguarding concerns, or how should I approach it? I will obviously be boycotting the venue from now on, if they have such a weak grasp of safeguarding, but I would like to do more than that.
What would you suggest?

OP posts:
Handsoffmyrights · 24/08/2022 11:18

Hilltrekker · 24/08/2022 10:23

An Oldham drag act, called The Vegan Queens, has decided to quit performing children’s story hour after receiving abuse.
Paul Burgess, also known as Gemini, and Stuart Crowther, as Miasma, are known as The Vegan Queens

Fantastic news, well done to the brave woman who fought against this and made it happen.

Yeh, those mean women, spoiling men's rights to cosplay as women in an overtly sexualised way, while performing to children.

KittenKong · 24/08/2022 13:36

So what would happen if women turned up dressed as drag queens?🤔

Handsoffmyrights · 24/08/2022 15:31

KittenKong · 24/08/2022 13:36

So what would happen if women turned up dressed as drag queens?🤔

Well, I guess they wouldn't get erections, which has happened at DQST previously (albeit under rainbow sequins, so that's OK).

Gobbolinothekitchencat · 24/08/2022 15:48

So I heard from someone working close to Wokingham library today, that there were seven police vans and two police cars. Apparently it was peaceful demo but the signs were described as offensive and protestors weren’t local.

I can’t verify this but what was made clear by council leading up to event, the police presence doesn’t surprise me. Disappointed that there were resources for this when it doesn’t appear to be needed. Those poor children, well the parents/adults must have been quite unnerved by the number of police. The children probably quite like seeing the vans.

KittenKong · 24/08/2022 15:54

The kids would learn more from seeing the police cars and officers than some nightclub act…

Whosgotthekeystothejeep · 24/08/2022 16:20

the signs were described as offensive and protestors weren’t local

The TRA's are shameless when it comes to children, they have no idea about what is acceptable.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/08/2022 17:18

“Aida H Dee performed at Oxfordshire County Library as part of a UK tour designed to inform youngsters about the LGBTQ+ community.”

Rage
What information does it give about:
Lesbians?
Gay men?
Bi-sexual people?
All on the basis of a man dressing up as a woman, in a figure revealing (as a man) sequinned costume, with big hair and make up?

And what about TQ?
LGB is a sexual orientation.
T says there is no sex to orient towards.
They contradict each other.
There is no meaning to the ‘community’.

Q just means it’s great to have no boundaries about anything, let’s all be confused. That’s what stands out.

it also is a stupid, mindless, copying of American madness like chlorinated chicken and sugar fed beef. Something unworthwhile from the US the U.K. can do without.

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 17:28

ElizabethJaneHenchard · 18/08/2022 14:17

I'm going to a venue tonight that is hosting the Drag Queen Story Time later this year.
How do I complain about this, without seeming like a right-wing reactionary?
Do I hand in a letter, talking about safeguarding concerns, or how should I approach it? I will obviously be boycotting the venue from now on, if they have such a weak grasp of safeguarding, but I would like to do more than that.
What would you suggest?

Check out the Safer Schools Alliance for some help on this. Drag queens with highly sexual / politicised social media reading to toddlers with the outline of his penis visible? If anyone is super keen on this idea, you can pop across the water to the USA where children do slut drops and twerk for drag queens. The biggest safeguarding concern is that the bloke seems to be able to get away with things the average person working with kids never, ever would. Say NO to DQSH.

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 17:34

ScrollingLeaves · 24/08/2022 17:18

“Aida H Dee performed at Oxfordshire County Library as part of a UK tour designed to inform youngsters about the LGBTQ+ community.”

Rage
What information does it give about:
Lesbians?
Gay men?
Bi-sexual people?
All on the basis of a man dressing up as a woman, in a figure revealing (as a man) sequinned costume, with big hair and make up?

And what about TQ?
LGB is a sexual orientation.
T says there is no sex to orient towards.
They contradict each other.
There is no meaning to the ‘community’.

Q just means it’s great to have no boundaries about anything, let’s all be confused. That’s what stands out.

it also is a stupid, mindless, copying of American madness like chlorinated chicken and sugar fed beef. Something unworthwhile from the US the U.K. can do without.

Brilliant comment about the contradiction between LGB and the T. Sex or gender, which is it? Let's not confuse children anymore than we already are. And let's get gender ideology out of schools while we're at it. Children are taught that gender non-conformity is an illness that requires medicalisation. Disgusting. Children should be taught this: You ARE your body. Your body IS you. Don't listen to this unscientific garbage about gender identity.

Cozyfantutti · 24/08/2022 17:35

Correct Not Political are a good channel for livestreaming the TRA madness, they're going to be in Brighton in September for Kellie-Jay's Let Women Speak event

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 17:46

Apollo442 · 20/08/2022 00:46

Are you kidding me? You really expect me to ask the venue if the man reading a story to my child is going to produce a dildo or whether his penis will be visible. I have a very reasonable expectation of the venue doing due diligence and there being zero chance of that. The fact that we should have to make such enquiries should tell you everything you need to know about DQST, its unsuitability for children and the dereliction of duty of those booking these acts.

Yeah I think if you need to be asking questions about how sexual it's likely to be, then that's a clear red flag. Have you seen how some drag queens behave with children in America? It's beyond inappropriate.

Add that to:

  • The outline of his penis on display
  • His sexual / politicised story hour social media, including "love has no age".
  • Shouting down women online (is the "role model" we want for our children?)
  • He's raising money for Mermaids (look them up, they send binders to children)
  • His investment in gender ideology. They teach this in schools (and they absolutely should not).
  • His insistence on "breaking down barriers". What barriers? "Love has no age?" His words, not mine.

The idea that this guy could do or say just about anything and no one would say anything because he waves the LGBT flag is the biggest safeguarding concern for me. People are overlooking so much already. Any average person in skin tight clothing in the children's section of a library would be monitored closely, not hired to do an event.

No to DQSH.

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 17:54

thedancingbear · 20/08/2022 10:12

Or you could just, you know, not go.

How is that inclusive? Children's events in libraries should cater to MOST people. This does not. It's exclusive by its very nature. It's also taxpayers' money and taking place in a public building. Parents have the right to ASSUME the appropriateness of events in a public library, not feel forced to ask questions about whether it's overly sexual in nature. Drag with kids has gone way too far in the US. We don't want that here. No to DQSH.

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 18:04

Mumtumtastic · 20/08/2022 12:39

“The main USP of drag, at least mainstream drag, is sexualised performance parodying women. It is adult entertainment. Whether that floats your boat or not as an adult is up to you.

It is not for children. Any sort of performance from a genre based around sex is totally inappropriate for children. That is the safeguarding risk. Because children are not equipped to understand this stuff, they are not equipped to understand the origins of drag, or the culture of drag. Its just not suitable and they don't really get any particular benefit from DQST that they wouldn't get from anyone else reading them a story. Children are not centred in this, and that is also a safeguarding red flag, when the needs of adults are put above kids.

It's not about whether a particular drag queen is a danger to children, it is about children being exposed to an entertainment genre that is totally unnecessary and inappropriate. We do then have serious safeguarding issues as well, when artists such as Aida H Dee and Flow Job have highly inappropriate sexualised material on their public social media when they are also doing story telling sessions. That would not be allowed with any other genre of children's entertainer, so the fact it is allowed with drag queens is another major safeguarding red flag. Because you cannot have robust safeguarding whilst also have 'untouchable' people who are immune from scrutiny.

But ultimately, drag is not for kids.”

100% agree with you ThickCutSteakChips. I think you have communicated the serious issues here really well.
I wish the authorities who are allowing this would stop and listen to reason and stop this inappropriate exposure to children. Would were able to get in touch with someone to raise these concerns? Your LA and/or MP perhaps

Absolutely. Not child-centred. But the children don't seem to matter here. This is about male ego and freedom of expression from one side only? Women are silenced / reported / getting chucked off Twitter for saying that TWAM but this bloke can say anything offensive he likes online, then he comes into our libraries parodying women and reads to our children? He literally advocates for males to be put into female prisons (utterly dangerous) and is a gender extremist. No to DQSH.

He is also raising money for Mermaids....

Boadicea2 · 24/08/2022 18:06

Gobbolinothekitchencat · 24/08/2022 15:48

So I heard from someone working close to Wokingham library today, that there were seven police vans and two police cars. Apparently it was peaceful demo but the signs were described as offensive and protestors weren’t local.

I can’t verify this but what was made clear by council leading up to event, the police presence doesn’t surprise me. Disappointed that there were resources for this when it doesn’t appear to be needed. Those poor children, well the parents/adults must have been quite unnerved by the number of police. The children probably quite like seeing the vans.

Thanks for reporting back Gobbelino. I was wondering how this had gone.
It seems absolutely mad to use resources on this. I can only assume that he library service sees themselves as the champions of free speech.

ScrollingLeaves · 24/08/2022 18:08

@ nononsense29 · Today 17:34
I had written:

“And what about TQ?

LGB is a sexual orientation.
T says there is no sex to orient towards.
They contradict each other.”

Brilliant comment about the contradiction between LGB and the T. Sex or gender, which is it?

Thank you, it is brilliant but I did not think of it myself! I heard Mr Menno explain this to Glinner I think.

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 18:12

Echobelly · 19/08/2022 14:34

I'm... not sure that this is really needing dignifying with an answer but... the same way you and I would? I take it you can assess, for example, the difference between a joke you'd tell only to adults and one suitable for children?

Drag performer are performers - knowing your audience is very much part of your skill set, so yes, if they are being paid to perform in different settings, I would assume they have acquired 'these additional skills' of knowing what's appropriate for young children. Story times also have quite set parameters - you read a story, you sing some children's songs, it's not rocket science not to let a strip tease or a joke about big cocks just slip in there.

How does a man who has "Love has no age" on his story hour social media understand boundaries between what's ok for adults and what's ok for children? It's not exactly a glowing endorsement of his "skills". Children can find this page within minutes online. Check out his social media. OK for children, is it?

Also, he can't tuck his penis for the children's events, so it's not quite so visible? Can't even manage that? Why's that then? I'd say he absolutely doesn't understand boundaries.

And that's without mentioning the elephant in the room... "drag for kids".

Please....

nononsense29 · 24/08/2022 18:24

ThickCutSteakChips · 19/08/2022 14:58

Come on then, what is it exactly that children get out of having stories read to them by adult men who are dressed as sexualised parodies of women (which is what drag is), that they wouldn't get from other people?

What's the specific benefit to children?

He thinks men can be lesbians and is nasty to women online. It's online for anyone to see. He's a role model for queer kids, apparently. Except the children don't understand that word and barely any adult uses it as it used to be a gay slur. They're not to know he's a queer role model specifically. Any kids who feel they might be "queer" surely don't relate to adult drag. How does it inform their homosexuality, exactly? What are they learning? If it's how to dress up, kids have got this covered. How insulting to conflate drag with the expression of a sexual orientation... Am I missing something?

TheSunnySide · 24/08/2022 18:28

I would ask why he is getting paid so much at a time when librarians are so badly paid and under-supported by councils and schools. He is not very good at storytelling and he promotes his own terrible books. The council near me pay their cleaners more than they pay their librarians. I would also question why some councils are employing this person to visit nurseries and schools.

Gobbolinothekitchencat · 24/08/2022 18:32

The protest has been portrayed as a spectacular own goal locally. Focus has been on the presence of Piers Corbyn shouting at children and adults/parents with a megaphone. Reported as a very small group but again, any questioning of why this event celebrates inclusiveness is shut down especially with the presence of Corbyn there. Shouting at/ near small children is never going to make people stop and think about why they are protesting.

In terms of free publicity, I would say Aida/ Seb couldn’t ask for more. My silent protest was to book tickets and not turn up. A bit pointless I guess.

LatinDreamer · 24/08/2022 18:34

I would also question why some councils are employing this person to visit nurseries and schools.

It's about intoducing the idea of transhumanism to children at as young an age as possible.

Tamworthian · 24/08/2022 18:40

VaggieMight · 19/08/2022 00:54

Drag and panto are completely different and everyone knows it. Traditionally drag is adult entertainment and panto is for children. It's transparently dishonest to pretend otherwise.

DQST doesn't centre children, it's not even inclusive. Given that outside of DQST nearly all children are not going to encounter a drag queen until they're adult, it's really not about inclusivity. It's seems more important that all the adults involved can pretend they're really inclusive and shower in rainbow glitter.

If it was about inclusivity there would be disabled person or older person story time, or a minority person story time.

But if it is inclusive, then to what exactly? M Drag queens traditionally inhabit adult venues in the night time. I've never seen a drag queen outside of an adult venue.

I'm struggling to think of any other entertainment which only found in adult venues and the children' corner of the library.

Maybe serve the children mocktails so children can get the full adult entertainment (for children) experience.

It's great drag queens can work in the day as drag now, but let's not pretend it's for the children.

And yes, where children are involved, there is always a safeguarding risk.

I agree about if it was truly about visibility it would be disabled people, perhaps gay parents, female firefighters etc. I saw an author on twitter getting upset about how there was a protest outside her local library when ‘AidaHDeeDrag’ was performing. She was sad she couldn’t take her one year old, when it was aimed at older children, and upset about the protest. She wrote a letter in support of it and it showing her son that when he grows up he can be whoever he wants to be.

Totally progressive that her son now knows he can grow up to be a man in a tight dress around his crotch reading stories to kids while named after a neuro diverse condition. Yay.

If I was gay I’d be getting quite perturbed by the way in which LGB people are being represented within this. I’m pretty sure they’re just wanting to live their lives vs cling filming themselves into clothing and putting a display on in libraries.

LatinDreamer · 24/08/2022 18:45

Gobbolinothekitchencat · 24/08/2022 18:32

The protest has been portrayed as a spectacular own goal locally. Focus has been on the presence of Piers Corbyn shouting at children and adults/parents with a megaphone. Reported as a very small group but again, any questioning of why this event celebrates inclusiveness is shut down especially with the presence of Corbyn there. Shouting at/ near small children is never going to make people stop and think about why they are protesting.

In terms of free publicity, I would say Aida/ Seb couldn’t ask for more. My silent protest was to book tickets and not turn up. A bit pointless I guess.

I disagree, anything that spreads the word and let's the glorious sunlight flood in has to be a good thing.

Our numbers are growing bigger and with all the new people brought to this fight thanks to DQSH the TRAs are going to be in for a shock at upcoming GC events.

Tamworthian · 24/08/2022 19:06

Maybe there were some female police officers there so it’s not a complete failure on the diversity front. Likely paid less than the average drag queen but we can’t have it all.

Toseland · 24/08/2022 19:19

Wow what a holey thread.
To the question as to why parents take their kids: parents are tired and looking for something to do whilst they can sit back for a bit. They trust the Library to put on good content. Drag is shown on the BBC right, it must be ok? Drag is taking advantage of this.

To the question of 'how can we fight this': yes indeed it is difficult as the BBC has been pushing drag content so long - it is plain wrong, just more people need to understand and complain - oh and journalists step up.

As for claiming that drag queens don't fall into the same category as men and sex offenders - what nonsence, they are men mocking women to their faces and we are supposed to find this funny. Was it 98% of sex crimes are commited by men?
Womanface - dressing up and mocking women has had it's day as have all the other 'faces'.

Malie · 24/08/2022 19:40

There is nothing right wing or reactionary about decency or appropriateness for kids. Anyone with any brains knows that a drag queen is a sexualised act meant for adults. I would not want kids to be read to by such a person any more than by a pole dancer or a stripper. It sends out entirely the wrong message. Such things are not ‘progressive’ merely inappropriate.