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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to complain about Drag Queen Story Time

181 replies

ElizabethJaneHenchard · 18/08/2022 14:17

I'm going to a venue tonight that is hosting the Drag Queen Story Time later this year.
How do I complain about this, without seeming like a right-wing reactionary?
Do I hand in a letter, talking about safeguarding concerns, or how should I approach it? I will obviously be boycotting the venue from now on, if they have such a weak grasp of safeguarding, but I would like to do more than that.
What would you suggest?

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 19/08/2022 22:56

ScrollingLeaves · 19/08/2022 22:47

Echobelly· Today 19:03
I don't believe anyone voicing concerns is a 'bigot', but I do think people should be careful of not making themselves useful instruments of those who have an agenda to force LGBTQ+ people back into the closet 'for the sake of the children'

LGBTQ+ people being swept back into the closet is never going to happen because parents say that they want children left out of an LGBTQ+ adult’s business. No one has to act apologetic for saying this (DQST) is not for children.

The people who are the ‘instruments’ are the organisers so mindlessly adopting this U S import. It is another branded, heavily pushed, market force and they are its dupes.

This is why I hate the addition of TQ+ on the end of LGB.

LBG has always (and will always) relate to biological sexes attraction to one another.

TQ+ has actually, fuck all to do with females fancying females/males fancying males/etc.

TQ+ is about how someone "feels in themselves" not their attraction to others. If I was gay, I'd be foaming about men wanting to dress and act like women piggy backing on all the distance gay/lesbian/bi people have come to be accepted.

SkiingIsHeaven · 19/08/2022 23:13

@CheeseyToasts I didn't say that it should not be allowed. I said I don't understand why anyone would take a small child.

You and your friends are welcome to take your kids.

Don't worry, this 50+ bigot will leave some room for you.

clpsmum · 19/08/2022 23:22

krazipan · 18/08/2022 14:20

I am genuinely interested in what the safeguarding concerns are?

This

Apollo442 · 20/08/2022 00:46

Echobelly · 19/08/2022 19:03

@Apollo442 - I'm a mum of two.

I'm not going to disagree that people have a right to object to the extremes, such as the monkey costume with a phallus or stripping drag kings (the latter not being a Drag Queen Story Time, if you want to be pedantic) as those aren't suitable for kids. But they're not reasons to blanket ban DQST.

It's still a new thing and mistakes are going to be made by overenthusiastic events people, so maybe if you want to be taken seriously focus on the content, not vilifying performers. So OK, if you have concerns contact a venue and ask what they're doing to check it will be appropriate and that they're sticking to singing children's songs and reading a story and will be appropriately dressed (as most are, because there aren't news stories about all of those sessions) and you can say it's not their sexuality you care about it's that these are people who are usually adult performers. Voila - concerns voiced without vilifying a group of people.

I don't believe anyone voicing concerns is a 'bigot', but I do think people should be careful of not making themselves useful instruments of those who have an agenda to force LGBTQ+ people back into the closet 'for the sake of the children'.

As for what kids get out of it, I'm not convinced it really does much for equality at the end of the day but it should be an experienced performer who is good at making stories entertaining and memorable for kids. Do I have issues with misogyny in drag? Yes, it's a problem. Is it going to be a defining feature of a DQST session? I doubt it. I don't think young kids will see queens as 'mocking women' any more than they'd see a clown as 'mocking men'.

Are you kidding me? You really expect me to ask the venue if the man reading a story to my child is going to produce a dildo or whether his penis will be visible. I have a very reasonable expectation of the venue doing due diligence and there being zero chance of that. The fact that we should have to make such enquiries should tell you everything you need to know about DQST, its unsuitability for children and the dereliction of duty of those booking these acts.

thedancingbear · 20/08/2022 10:12

Apollo442 · 20/08/2022 00:46

Are you kidding me? You really expect me to ask the venue if the man reading a story to my child is going to produce a dildo or whether his penis will be visible. I have a very reasonable expectation of the venue doing due diligence and there being zero chance of that. The fact that we should have to make such enquiries should tell you everything you need to know about DQST, its unsuitability for children and the dereliction of duty of those booking these acts.

Or you could just, you know, not go.

thefinest · 20/08/2022 10:19

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Apollo442 · 20/08/2022 10:34

thedancingbear · 20/08/2022 10:12

Or you could just, you know, not go.

You clearly have no idea. A show where you have to check such things is not suitable for ANY child.

Mumtumtastic · 20/08/2022 12:39

“The main USP of drag, at least mainstream drag, is sexualised performance parodying women. It is adult entertainment. Whether that floats your boat or not as an adult is up to you.

It is not for children. Any sort of performance from a genre based around sex is totally inappropriate for children. That is the safeguarding risk. Because children are not equipped to understand this stuff, they are not equipped to understand the origins of drag, or the culture of drag. Its just not suitable and they don't really get any particular benefit from DQST that they wouldn't get from anyone else reading them a story. Children are not centred in this, and that is also a safeguarding red flag, when the needs of adults are put above kids.

It's not about whether a particular drag queen is a danger to children, it is about children being exposed to an entertainment genre that is totally unnecessary and inappropriate. We do then have serious safeguarding issues as well, when artists such as Aida H Dee and Flow Job have highly inappropriate sexualised material on their public social media when they are also doing story telling sessions. That would not be allowed with any other genre of children's entertainer, so the fact it is allowed with drag queens is another major safeguarding red flag. Because you cannot have robust safeguarding whilst also have 'untouchable' people who are immune from scrutiny.

But ultimately, drag is not for kids.”

100% agree with you ThickCutSteakChips. I think you have communicated the serious issues here really well.
I wish the authorities who are allowing this would stop and listen to reason and stop this inappropriate exposure to children. Would were able to get in touch with someone to raise these concerns? Your LA and/or MP perhaps

Waiting4baby2 · 22/08/2022 14:40

I’m a HUGE drag race fan. Im
completely obsessed with it but I wouldn’t even consider bringing my two young children to see a drag Queen. I find it bizarre - it’s just not for children and not sure how this trend began. Obviously enough people do want to bring their kids for them to be putting the storytimes on but I won’t be one of them…

KittenKong · 24/08/2022 07:15

Just read the BBC ‘news’ report of protests on Oxford.

So a plucky crowd of 300 mummies, grannies and lovely lovely people bravely linked arms, sang cum-ba-ya and faced down a mob of 50 conspiracy theory crazies.😳

Handsoffmyrights · 24/08/2022 08:45

BBC up to its usual tricks again with its reporting.

OldCrone · 24/08/2022 08:50

Biased report from the BBC as usual.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-62639419

beachcitygirl · 24/08/2022 08:51

Well you are a right wing Pearl clutching reactionary so why do you care if people know it?

KittenKong · 24/08/2022 08:53

Yawn. So boring.

OldCrone · 24/08/2022 09:03

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OldCrone · 24/08/2022 09:05

beachcitygirl · 24/08/2022 08:51

Well you are a right wing Pearl clutching reactionary so why do you care if people know it?

Are you saying you think sexualised entertainment is suitable for children? I don't think I need to state explicitly what that says about you.

Musomama1 · 24/08/2022 09:34

beachcitygirl · 24/08/2022 08:51

Well you are a right wing Pearl clutching reactionary so why do you care if people know it?

Keep telling yourself that. Next post, we're all a big bunch of white supremacist, right wing bigots 🤣🤣🤣 Cuz it's all about the performer's feelz.

We're not actually normal people approaching this with a degree of logic and common sense.

Handsoffmyrights · 24/08/2022 09:46

beachcitygirl · 24/08/2022 08:51

Well you are a right wing Pearl clutching reactionary so why do you care if people know it?

Fess up, with such a well balanced argument, you work for the BBC don't you?

Champions of Savile, Tavistock....we know child protection and safeguarding are top of its agenda.

PearlClutch · 24/08/2022 09:49

beachcitygirl · 24/08/2022 08:51

Well you are a right wing Pearl clutching reactionary so why do you care if people know it?

Pearl clutching, fine. Right wing? Reactionary?

Receipts, please, or go home.

PeriodBro · 24/08/2022 09:54

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Noting the giant high heel - liberation from sex stereotypes, ladies! We're all just stupid caked-on make up and tits and daft big hair and fuck-me shoes! Hahahahaha! So boundary-crossing! Much queering!

Plus the 'queer emporium' bag hung up in the pic, too. Nice product placement.

What does 'queer' advertising have to do with toddlers?

Meagaidh · 24/08/2022 09:57

I find the Women's Rights Network's reasoning compelling:. A couple of exerts here, find more on its website.

"The association of the librarians with Book28 is even more concerning, because Book28 is a small independent library in Clerkenwell focused entirely on work by trans or “queer” authors. Their guidance for welcoming LGBTQI+ library users includes the promotion of Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH), with criticism of DQSH described as “transphobic”.

We see the influence of Stonewall in CILIP too. CILIP is the Chartered Institute of Library & Informational Professionals, and they have an LGBTQ+ Network who, in a now deleted tweet, said
“that 'gender critical views' have no place” at the CILIP 2022 conference along with the usual Stonewall mantras."

"Libraries are enthusiastic supporters of Drag Queen Story Hour, an idea that started in the US and brings adult sex entertainers into our libraries to read to young children.

Many people – including many parents – seem entirely untroubled by this. Drag queens are just like pantomime dames, they think. It’s just a way to encourage children to read by making books fun, we’re told. But this isn’t true. Drag queens are like pantomime dames in the way that pantomimes are like night clubs. Only one is suitable for children. The other is a sexualised parody of women who is deliberately blurring the boundaries of men and women and bringing adult entertainment to children."

That blurring of children’s boundaries is a safeguarding red flag.

plumbago · 24/08/2022 10:03

I was there yesterday in Oxford - and bloody furious, because I'd planned to go to the library and it was closed for normal business! What's more there were loads of police officers wasting their valuable time. There were far more people on the Drag Queen side of the road, nearly all young and very noisy, screaming insults at the other side and playing deafeningly loud music. Opposite them were the 'far right bigots' - not many at all, mainly normal-looking people, mostly bystanders like me, didn't see any Tommy Robinson types. I chatted to a couple of policemen and we all rolled our eyes, then a couple of Granny-types like me said 'We're on the side of the bigots' - my, how we laughed. Of course the ruddy Socialist Workers were there, busy fomenting revolution. So it was all very interesting to see this stuff in real life, though I would rather have been browsing the fiction shelves. It was blindingly obvious which side were the aggressors!

mumda · 24/08/2022 10:15

www.theoldhamtimes.co.uk/news/20684096.oldham-drag-act-quits-childrens-story-hour-abuse/

An Oldham drag act, called The Vegan Queens, has decided to quit performing children’s story hour after receiving abuse.
Paul Burgess, also known as Gemini, and Stuart Crowther, as Miasma, are known as The Vegan Queens

Miasma: Google defines: as an unpleasant or unhealthy smell or vapour.
"a miasma of stale alcohol hung around him"

HotPenguin · 24/08/2022 10:19

Two arguments I would make against this are.

  1. A drag queen is not representative of the vast majority of gay people. Representing the gay community in this way is taking us back to the 1970s where the only depictions of gay characters on TV were effeminate/camp men who were presented as something to be laughed at.
  2. The character doing most of these, Aida H Dee, is mocking ADHD. While the performer feels they are entitled to do this because they have ADHD themselves, how does it feel for children who have a diagnosis of ADHD? If we are going to talk to children about ADHD surely it should be done in a straightforward way that helps understanding of the condition, rather than as a joke?
Hilltrekker · 24/08/2022 10:23

An Oldham drag act, called The Vegan Queens, has decided to quit performing children’s story hour after receiving abuse.
Paul Burgess, also known as Gemini, and Stuart Crowther, as Miasma, are known as The Vegan Queens

Fantastic news, well done to the brave woman who fought against this and made it happen.