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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dear Richard Madeley: ‘My transgender brother is furious with my choice of baby name’

133 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 13/08/2022 20:14

Interesting piece on the agony uncle pages of the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/dear-richard-madeley-transgender-brother-furious-choice-baby/

The key point is that a pregnant woman who has a transman sibling wants to name her baby after a female ancestor who was important to them as she (ancestor) was a suffragette and a scientist. Transman sibling has stopped to talking to her because the ancestor's name is also the transman's deadname. The writer of the letter and the wider family had supported the transman through transition and had previously had a good relationship.

Richard's reply is that she should name the baby what she likes and to "tell your brother to grow up. There’s already one baby on the way.
"You say he had full family support during his trans journey. Well, support flows both ways. Tell him how important it is to you to honour your ancestor. And why shouldn’t you? Is this valued family figure – part of ALL your collective pasts – destined to become a sort of non-person simply because of your brother?
As for him refusing to speak to you over this… well, really. He’s being over-dramatic and, frankly, ridiculous. In fact, if the naming of his little niece is the biggest thing in his life he has to worry about, he’s an extremely lucky man."

Which I thought was very good advice.

It does raise interesting questions about the nature of a deadname.

If dead then surely can be re-used? If there is still an issue then it is not dead at all. Say the deadname was Sally and the transman is now Fred then it suggests philosophically there is still a Sally-iness about Fred, if it really was a dead name there would not be. And that is why Fred is uncomfortable. If there never was any Sally to Fred and just Fred waiting to come out then surely the Sally name should be available to use within the family for others??

I wonder if a situation with the married surname of a woman who divorces and wants to never hear her ex-name again is structurally similar?

Mrs Smith goes back to being Miss Jones. Changes her documents and never, ever, ever uses the name again. Miss Jones would still have to use Smith on any document that says 'any other name you have been known by'? Surely? Is Miss Jones every really able to lose the Smith completely? would she really expect never to hear it again?

And say the married name was unusual like Fernsby. Women can choose to change their name or not. What if a friend or a cousin or sister met another Mr Fernsby and wanted to marry and take the name Fernsby, would anyone think it reasonable if the women for whom that name was 'dead' objected to the name change and having another Mrs Fernsby in the family even if the name was a traumatic one where there had been DV or soemthing?

Those of us who do change our names have our MIL, and SIL possibly too, all the same Mrs xxxx as we are. Possibly even the ex-wife too! Maybe more than one ex-wife!! Are woman just more used to having odd name associations and changes?

Although this story is a transman I associate the deadname issue more with transwomen for some reason. Maybe because women expect and evolving name identity?

OP posts:
IsadoraQuagmire · 15/08/2022 11:20

Hahaha I see my post was deleted. I can't remember what I said, but guess what; I STILL know that human beings can't actually sex Grin

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 15/08/2022 11:51

'A friend of a friend has my deadname and each time I hear it I feel very uncomfortable. I know it's their name, but I just get triggered by hearing it. Also, I'm fairly new to my chosen name, so maybe in ten years I wouldn't mind, but right now it makes me feel unsafe.'

So in some circles the new meaning of 'unsafe' is 'uncomfortable'. Actually, that makes a lot of sense when you hear 'unsafe' used by TRAs.

Tallwhitepine · 15/08/2022 12:25

Beowulfa · 15/08/2022 10:40

I'm genuinely surprised that so many people wouldn't like a sibling using their name for a niece/nephew. I'd be quietly flattered and would then get the fuck on with my life.

Is this the modern obsession with unique equating to "special"? A friend of mine was taken aback on discovering her daughter was one of 4 Isabellas in her Reception class....

When I found out a family friend gave her daughter my name I was nothing but pleased. How touching that she had such a positive impression of me and my name that she used it for her baby. What a sour outlook I'd have if I assumed she did it to piss me off.

crosstalk · 15/08/2022 21:01

Names are odd things. In some countries and societies they are happy to go with John Burgomeister 1, John Junior, John Burgomeister 2 like hereditary titles. Even when there aren't fortunes attached. In most countries until fairly recently women have taken their husbands' surnames or spliced them on. In some religions you only name a child after the dead, not the living. So they are totemic in a way - how many of us are tempted to/do correct people who misname us? However I have a long running name in my family - not famous but much loved and admired people had it. If my brother transed (and several people in our family have) and decided my baby DS couldn't be called Cuthbert because that was his former name, I'd just go ahead.

CaptainCreepsBourgeMobile · 15/08/2022 21:10

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 14/08/2022 11:32

When did that deletion message start?

I don't know what was said but as an official deletion message that I weird. Has anyone noticed it before? I'd like to report it with a bit more information to go on!

What did it say? It just says "message deleted" now.

Clymene · 15/08/2022 21:18

It said 'deleted for anti-Trans' or similar. @IsadoraQuagmire - it really would be worth you contacting MNHQ during office hours and finding out what that was about.

aweegc · 15/08/2022 21:51

Joanne Katherine would be a nice alternative to the intended name. Perhaps JK for short?

😅

Moral of this story is do not tell anybody - anybody - baby's name until it's born. Even better if it's registered quickly. There's always someone who has a problem with it, even without a renowned relative and trans sibling.

IsadoraQuagmire · 15/08/2022 21:52

Clymene · 15/08/2022 21:18

It said 'deleted for anti-Trans' or similar. @IsadoraQuagmire - it really would be worth you contacting MNHQ during office hours and finding out what that was about.

I'm not bothered. If knowing (like the vast, vast, VAST majority of people know) that humans can't change sex is "transphobic" then that's just too bad for the TRAs Grin I was looking at a thread about JKR on Twitter a while ago, where a bunch of fools were saying she IS transphobic because she believes there are only 2 sexes. I can't be arsed with such stupidity and ignorance.

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