Globe Theatre makes Joan of Arc non-binary in new play

[ChristinaXYZ]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/11/globe-theatre-makes-joan-arc-non-binary-new-play/

"Joan of Arc is represented as non-binary in the Globe show, and the pronouns of the French patron saint have been changed to “they/them” rather than “she/her”.

Women’s rights campaigners have raised concerns that the move is another example of female figures being “erased” from history.

Promotional material for the “powerful and joyous new play” sets the scene: “Rebelling against the world’s expectations, questioning the gender binary, Joan finds their power and their belief spreads like fire.”

The play is written by writer Charlie Josephine, whose web biography states: “My pronouns are they/he. I’m an actor and a writer."

The Telegraph writers, who like The Spectator staff, know their stuff on this and have included a Women's Place comment too:

"Campaigner group Women’s Place UK said in a statement on the issue: “Women are getting really tired of being erased from history and having our achievements diminished.

“Joan of Arc was an astonishing woman who rebelled against the authoritarian oppression she faced for being female.

“Theatre has a fine tradition of inverting reality to encourage us to look at life differently but the fact remains that Joan of Arc was a woman and was persecuted as such.”"

Perhaps your point is also my point - my response was to the idea that, during times of war, everyone was or should have been far too busy for speculating about pronouns and chopping logic about what it means to have a sexed body. But, of course, they weren't.

Whether anyone genuinely thinks pronoun use changes the physical body, I'm not really sure.

Well, all of it, because he circles back and forth (and his argument is tangled up with questions of sodomy and effeminacy, as well). But metre 1 is the standard bit that gets cited.

It does depend, sure. I think if you glanced up, on hearing a deep voice, you'd think 'man' before you took in the shape of the person+clothing; I can see how gait can say something different from what clothes say (Gentleman Jack is fab at this - Suranne Jones 'looks' cross-dressed because of her body language, even though she's wearing a skirt - though whether she would in a dress that hid her body more, I'm not sure).

But what I am getting at is that it is perfectly possible to have a split second of misidentifying someone's sex, if they are doing or wearing something that gives you a powerful cue to do that.

But what I am getting at is that it is perfectly possible to have a split second of misidentifying someone's sex

sure, I don’t think anyone’s in disagreement with that. Probably most of us can remember times it’s happened. It feels a bit like putting your foot on a step that isn’t there. But we can remember it because it’s unusual, a malfunction of sorts. We don’t remember the 99.9999% of occasions when we’ve seen a person and automatically identified their sex as soon as we saw them.

But what I am getting at is that it is perfectly possible to have a split second of misidentifying someone's sex

That's not the same as passing as the opposite sex. After that split second, in nearly every case, you'd recognise the actual sex of that person.

Oh, absolutely, to both replies. Wasn't saying anything different.

Identify as non-binary! There’s literally nothing stopping you.

A pp mentioned dialogue - I for one hope there will be a line similar to that female student at the Bristol Jam Jar protest - when being referred to as she, she they replied “my pronouns are they, you c*nt!”

I've been wondering about this again this morning. How will Joan's non-binariness manifest itself in the play? Will Joan introduce Joan's self to each character with name and pronoun exchange? Or will the audience/characters infer Joan's true inner sense of self from Joan's "gender expression" i.e. clothes and haircut?

She’ll have everyone state their pronouns before giving speeches and going into battle, I guess.

Just occurred to me, does the French language have a gender neutral 'they'? There is 'ils' for males and mixed groups and 'elles' for females, what is used for gender neutral?

She’ll have everyone state their pronouns before giving speeches and going into battle, I guess.

This is exactly the point isn't it? In a world were grandstanding about identity and email signatures have little relevance, how will it work?

We’d still be waiting for the battle to commence…

They've invented a new gender neutral pronoun, 'iel'.

There's a whole bunch of alternatives on this page as well.

www.lawlessfrench.com/vocabulary/gender-neutral-pronouns/

‘iel’ - surely that’s from the Latin ‘small person who is insufferable pain in the backside’ - it’s science, people! Also see Ciseil (a natural born pain in the backside), and ‘’assigned iel at birth’ (my parents hate me).

I agree with this completely. I've seen a lot of plays, art installations, etc. Sometimes I find them offensive or strongly disagree with what they are saying. That's fine as long as it's done intelligently and makes me think, even if it just helps me understand why I object to something.

I am pleased to see the Globe doing this play, because I believe in free speech, even though I imagine I will find it infurating. I hope the theatre will have the guts to handle to handle the media around this with the understand that it's presenting a political view, not an opportunity to pat themselves on the back for correcting history. Even better if/when a theatre has the courage to put on a play that honestly explores the gender debate.

And absolutely yes about the poster. It reminds me of the awful Emma Corrin photo shoot from a year or so back about her 'cool' binding 'journey'.

The globe has unisex loos doesn’t it? That tells you how much they will be up for ‘debate’.

God yes the poster is awful

So, in short, until very, very recently non. So, Joan couldn't have been grammatically nb.

So, in short, until very, very recently non. So, Joan couldn't have been grammatically nb

😂

I personally think it should be more of a fringe event rather than at an historic venue like The Globe. I remember visiting here on a school history trip and I bet they still have many schools visiting, you'd expect a degree of accuracy here and the poster is not a great look or the inescapable fact of female erasure.

I do think venues should consider what they are staging and whether it is appropriate for them to do so.

I personally think it should be more of a fringe event rather than at an historic venue like The Globe. I remember visiting here on a school history trip and I bet they still have many schools visiting, you'd expect a degree of accuracy here and the poster is not a great look or the inescapable fact of female erasure.
I do think venues should consider what they are staging and whether it is appropriate for them to do so

I don't really want to set myself up as defending the Globe as I doubt I will enjoy this play and I do disagree with the idea of presenting Joan as NB. I just wanted to defend it on free speech grounds, because I find the TRA movement's attempts to silence other views and to coerce people into (pretending to) accept their ideology absolutely chilling and dangerous, not just for women's rights.

But...The Globe does do new work as well as Shakespeare, usually about historical figures (Nell Gwynne, Ann Boleyn and others), so this isn't a departure for them. I'd hope schools would do a bit of research before booking this - it's not as though the theatre has been secretive about how they are presenting Joan - it's been on their website for months.

I don't see why they have an obligation to be historically accurate. Shakespeare isn't historically accurate, neither is Maggie O'Farrell's Hamnet. I think all arts organisations have an obligation to defend free speech and to try and create a space for discussion and debate around subjects. Art can't really exist without that, but I am sceptical about whether The Globe will do this. They often host discussions related to their theatre productions, so I'd love to see that done about this one. If they're scared to invite GC speakers to live events, then stream it. It's an opportunity to show that the arts are still about freedom of expression. I hope they will take it.

I personally think it should be more of a fringe event rather than at an historic venue like The Globe. I remember visiting here on a school history trip and I bet they still have many schools visiting, you'd expect a degree of accuracy here

But ... the Globe isn't an historic venue. The actual Globe burned down. In 1613. And the new Globe was made specifically to stage the plays of Shakespeare, which play fast and loose with historical accuracy.

I just wanted to defend it on free speech grounds

I don’t know that there is any need to defend it on free speech grounds, is there? No one wants the production banned, or the Globe defunded or anything (though I suppose if they continue to produce stuff like this then people might start to ask questions about their public funding.)

I think perhaps defending it on free speech grounds is a sign that it can’t be defended on artistic grounds!

you are right though - if they invited and hosted open discussion about the work that would be a very positive step for free speech, and they won’t do it.

As someone just pointed out on Twitter, the person/ people who designed the poster certainly know what her sex was! Why not have her wearing armour? Or kneeling in prayer? No , they have got her in her underwear/ binder. How utter ridiculous the Globe have turned out to be!

I don’t know that there is any need to defend it on free speech grounds, is there? No one wants the production banned, or the Globe defunded or anything (though I suppose if they continue to produce stuff like this then people might start to ask questions about their public funding.)
I think perhaps defending it on free speech grounds is a sign that it can’t be defended on artistic grounds!

It can't be defended on artistic grounds because it hasn't opened yet and the script hasn't been published, so on what basis are people criticising it? The poster and publicity info? It doesn't appeal to me because I assume I will disagree with it politically, but it could still be well written, well acted, etc.

They can't be defunded as they don't get a subsidy (apart from the one-off Cultural Recovery Fund money that many arts orgs got).