Globe Theatre makes Joan of Arc non-binary in new play

[ChristinaXYZ]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/11/globe-theatre-makes-joan-arc-non-binary-new-play/

"Joan of Arc is represented as non-binary in the Globe show, and the pronouns of the French patron saint have been changed to “they/them” rather than “she/her”.

Women’s rights campaigners have raised concerns that the move is another example of female figures being “erased” from history.

Promotional material for the “powerful and joyous new play” sets the scene: “Rebelling against the world’s expectations, questioning the gender binary, Joan finds their power and their belief spreads like fire.”

The play is written by writer Charlie Josephine, whose web biography states: “My pronouns are they/he. I’m an actor and a writer."

The Telegraph writers, who like The Spectator staff, know their stuff on this and have included a Women's Place comment too:

"Campaigner group Women’s Place UK said in a statement on the issue: “Women are getting really tired of being erased from history and having our achievements diminished.

“Joan of Arc was an astonishing woman who rebelled against the authoritarian oppression she faced for being female.

“Theatre has a fine tradition of inverting reality to encourage us to look at life differently but the fact remains that Joan of Arc was a woman and was persecuted as such.”"

so on what basis are people criticising it? The poster and publicity info?

yes, obviously. There’s plenty to criticise there.

good to know re funding; seems that their public subsidies are indirect via schools.

When you say you reckon men just cross dressed for fun, and women for profit - yes, but how do you know? When I posted earlier saying I thought this was a bit simplistic

I don’t think I said anything remotely as reductive as “men just cross dressed for fun, and women for profit”. I didn’t write anything of the sort, and certainly nothing that “simplistic” (rather the reverse). But there isn’t much point in me just restating my previous posts, so I don’t think it’s productive for me to engage further here.

In any case — and getting back to the main topic — I’m amazed no-one’s as yet posted the lyrics of this relevant ditty (Bigmouth Strikes Again by The Smiths), which kind of sums the whole teenage nonbinary angsty business up pretty nicely:
^^
And now I know how Joan of Arc felt
Now I know how Joan of Arc felt
As the flames rose to her Roman nose
And her walkman started to melt

😂

@theclangersarecoming - I'm so sorry, I've obviously offended you, and I really didn't intend to. I suspect a big part of the problem is that I replied after a fairly long gap, and perhaps we'd just lost the momentum of that conversation.

I've really appreciated you taking the time to talk to me, and hope you'll excuse my clumsy language.

Is this a new mod or new deletion message that we’ll see more of? I’m wondering when we’ll see “We have deleted this post as it includes language that is anti women”

Won’t hold my breath.

That deletion is absolutely infantile. The post that SarahAndQuack made wasn’t “anti-trans”, rather the complete reverse. The entire point of the post was one that was actually about how people justified transphobia in the past.

It’s like deleting a post about historic examples of racism, for being racist. The “monitors” reporting posts are clearly thick as mince with poor reading comprehension; and ditto the mods for going along with this idiocy FFS.

And, most ironically, on a thread where the consensus of opinion is that this Globe play is silly and historically inaccurate, but absolutely has the right to exist on free speech and artistic grounds. What better example of the intransigent stupidity of the gender ideologues, who don’t even have the wit to notice that they are clamouring for posts to be deleted that agree with them.

There's been something very odd about the deletions on this board all weekend. Inconsistent with guidelines, referencing 'anti trans' while clearly not being, showing very limited maturity and comprehension.

I'm planning to raise it with the regular mods today.

Attack of the teenage intern perhaps?

Something like that

‘Anti trans’. So you can not say anything that isn’t 100% pro trans (which has a very wide definition).

Surely it’ll be coming every time a poster uses “cis”, right? Right?

I am a homosexual. I happen to think there's no such thing as transgender. I think it's either autogynephilia/cross-dressing, internalised homophobia (boys and girls) or misogyny (girls with the Rapid Onset version), or a form of body dysmorphia like anorexia. I think it's weaponised by narcissism and critical social justice theory in a way that has made it akin to a religious cult. It's impervious to logic.

You seem surprised that gay people might be accused of transphobia/homophobia. But as we who have been following this for years know, even trans identified people are accused of transphobia. That is because the whole movement is batshit and is grounded in illogic.

Brilliant!

AgnestaVipers · Today 09:38

Thank you for your post beginning,

I am a homosexual. I happen to think there's no such thing as transgender……..

Your summary of what is really behind the idea of transgender which follows is so right I think, and you have put it very succinctly.

You seem surprised that gay people might be accused of transphobia/homophobia.

no, that’s not what I said. Of course I’m not surprised by that. Accusations of transphobia are ten a penny and hurled at all sorts of ridiculous targets.

I was making the point that ‘transphobia’ in the sense that TRAs use the word, is unrelated with homophobia. It’s a cheap word that means nothing at all. And you said earlier that you were using the word in the TRA sense. Was it a typo or something, did you mean to say you aren’t using the word in the TRA sense? That seems more consistent with your subsequent posts.

And I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was breaking down the logic to reduce ambiguity and confusion.

Anyway since that didn’t work and I’m repeating points I already made I’ll bow out.

@DarkDayforMN , Other people seem to have followed my points.

And, Perhaps you’d care to rethink premise 1 or 2? sounded very much like sarcasm.

Yes, some other people agreed with your summary of the trans rights movement, as do I - it was a very nice bit of rhetoric and completely unrelated to the prior discussion!

Wait, they deleted one of my posts for transphobia? Bit confused.

Is there a way to view the whole thread? I can't find it since they redesigned the site, and I'm not trawling through ten pages to figure out what they deleted!

Slightly OT, but I wonder if (particularly) transwomen pass better amongst men than they do with women. It wouldn't be entirely surprising if women are socialised in a way that means we take more notice of relatively subtle 'cues' around the way people present. (Not least that we're socialising to scrutinise other women and compete with them.)

Wait, they deleted one of my posts for transphobia? Bit confused

I've asked for an explanation for the bizarre moderating over the weekend. Nothing forthcoming yet.

@SarahAndQuack I didn't read all your posts closely or follow all of them but I don't recall anything that could be described as 'anti-trans' and I don't recall ever seeing that wording in a deletion. Seems very bizarre. Perhaps the mods. could give you some clarification? The post deleted is dated 13/8/2022 and timestamped 14.35, if that's any help. Did MN send you a scolding email?

Thanks! No, no scolding email. Good idea about asking the mods.

You're welcome. I'm being a bit self serving because it seems so odd and I want to know wtf they're thinking. If you do get any clarification, and if you wish to, please update.

Nothing wrong with that! Of course you want to know. I'm off on holiday today, but I will try to pop back and update when they tell me something.

I do wonder if someone read something I said was a historical attitude, and thought it was my own view, maybe?