What does Val McDermid mean?

[achillestoes]

“My view of gender politics is you bring people into the tent. Womanhood is a big tent. It embraces me and Kim Kardashian. There’s certainly room in that tent for the trans women I know.”

Translate. Right answers only.

That's a powerful post Serena. I am on board with everything you say there, believe me. (Except I don't know what an AWA is?).

I was speaking to a friend this morning about rapists in prison with women. Anger is an understandable response; we are dealing with negligence, misogyny, cowardice, political disingenuousness, wilful blindness and mendacity that yes results in real harm. But as ever to go beyond that and get through to the people that matter we have to rise above.

It's not through any kind of righteousness I say that; it's just pragmatism.

We are getting there. Hold on tight x

Blimey @SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey I'm also in Scotland and very worried about what's happening to women here too. Now I just read the Times article.

"I can’t imagine many men shedding their power enough to put on a frock just so they could get closer to women."

Just because VM can't imagine it? Men don't even need to put on a frock, they say they are trans and the doors open. It's already happened to vulnerable women in prisons and hospitals. It's documented. But I guess VM would rather not know.

Oh, and it doesn't need to be many men. There aren't many trans women either. But if there are only a few of each then women are equally likely to bump into both. When a woman sees someone she recognises as male in women's space it's roughly equally likely to be someone whose intentions are not honest. That's how small numbers work.

Facts are not kind but statistics and probabilities can be a real bitch.

Well said Serena

SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey
Thank you for articulating the miserable frustration & despair I also feel.
solidarity

PS that was meant to be a supportive "blimey" for @SerenaVanDerWoodsenHumphrey

I'm not in Scotland but l found that a very powerful post, Serena. Thank you.

I think lots of people have this sense of it. The idea of men doing this thing where they almost emasculate themselves, in a cultural sense, in order to gain power or influence over women, seems very weird and alien. I'm heterosexual, I find it weird just on the basis that being attracted sexually to a man behaving that way is something I find very difficult to imagine, and I'm generally pretty imaginative.

I think sometimes maybe some men actually catch on to this more quickly. I saw an interview Joe Rogan did once, and I can't even remember who he was talking to other than it was a woman, but they were talking about male feminists. He had very little time for them, admitted that maybe some just thought they were doing the right thing, but he clearly thought that in fact these were largely men who were not normally attractive to women, and were using the "feminist" label as a kind of camouflage to get close to women mainly for sexual purposes.

Which also seemed crazy to me, but I wonder after watching it, maybe being a man he has some insight there that I am not privy to. Rogan is in a lot of ways just a regular kind of male person, and I found it so interesting that to him it seemed completely obvious that this was a role some (or a lot) of men played in order to get access to sexual partners. Since then I've talked to a few different men I know, from different walks of life, and none of them seemed to find that hard to believe either.

Serenavanderwoodsenhumphrey, thank you for detailing your reasons/ position. I feel exactly the same way about other lesbians in my area who are fighting to ensure that men have access to lesbian and women's space. Perhaps the time has come to stop being polite. Linda Riley, Nancy Kelley, VM — they are all powerful lesbians actively working against lesbians and women and they deserve major censure.

That was a powerful post Serenavanderwoodsenhumphrey. I didn't know about Susan Stryker or Val McDermid blocking people either so I've learned something too. It's quite sad to think that someone who is clearly incredibly talented and politically aware should be so intolerant of other viewpoints but Val McDermid is very clearly part of the establishment now, unlike in her youth.

I read the Mermaids Singing book ages ago. I suppose it's just as well for Val that those most likely to complain are more likely to read young adult fiction/fantasy than detective stories.

The thing is, ‘putting on a frock’ does not cause trans women to shed male power. It almost amplifies that power in particular ways.

It’s disingenuous to pretend that the things that disempower women in society function the same way when male humans do or approximate them. They just don’t.

I get it, Serena. We have to be civil because it’s the way we get things done. That doesn’t mean we can’t be angry.

I assume I was deleted for (mistakenly) using a banned alternative description for a transwoman. I did not say anything inappropriate or personal against Val McDermid.

Thank you for your excellent post, I know exactly how you feel. I’m angry& embarrassed about the state of my country at the moment, but i am hearted by the amount of women who are pushing back with all their strengths. 💚🤍💜

VM used a particularly bad analogy there - into the tent, with visions of brownies and girl guides having to let boys into the real tent who are self declaring as girls so they can get some non consensual s ex with the teenage girls. Letting people with a p enis into the tent with women is not a great idea. Talk to each other in a place where we can keep those with a p enis at bay and defend ourselves though is fine - talking is always good.