What does Val McDermid mean?

[achillestoes]

“My view of gender politics is you bring people into the tent. Womanhood is a big tent. It embraces me and Kim Kardashian. There’s certainly room in that tent for the trans women I know.”

Translate. Right answers only.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous. She honestly seems to think she and KK are ‘outliers’ in womanhood. She defines how ‘womanly’ one is by how ‘feminine’ one is, kind of like people used to do in the 50s.

Does this include Eddie Izzard on his 'boy mode' days? Pip Bunce on a 'woman in business' day?

I think it must do. It probably includes drag queens as well - ‘women’ when they dress ‘as’ women, even with their penis taped to their belly button.

I'm disappointed too. Reading someone's books is like having a conversation with a friend... but you don't really have the whole person with you.

Being good at telling stories doesn't make you an expert in anything else. Writing is quite isolating in some ways. Val is probably not the only author not to have bumped into the realities of mutilating children or explosing women to preditors.

JK Rowling is a gold standard person - not just a writer.

It sounds as if Val is 'being kind' to some of the trans people she knows but isn't aware of being anything but kind to other women.

It’s very disappointing. I love her books.

I’ve never read any Val. Heard they’re good.

Odd to mention Kim and not Barbie. But maybe she doesn't know Barbie.

Or maybe she has failed to notice that she isn't just deciding who should be in her women's tent, she's deciding who is on the door as well. She may think she can play Lady Bountiful, letting in trans women on her terms, but it wont work out that way. She's giving away women's power to decide, including her own. Trans women will decide who is in her women's tent, on their own terms, not hers. By then it's too late to say "but you're not the trans women I know, you're not the ones I meant!" They wont listen if she tells them to exit the tent.

It might have something to do with replacing sexual politics by gender politics. Sexual politics don't go away just because you're not paying attention to them.

One one hand we are told that trans is extremely rare, so rare that the the inclusion of men into the 'womenhood tent' will have no impact whatsoever, on the other everyone seems to know lots of trans people, and well enough to vouch for them.

@DialSquare 😂😂😂

‘she's deciding who is on the door as well. She may think she can play Lady Bountiful...’

I read this as Lady Bouncerful.

I do like her Lindsay Gordon ones. Union Jack is my favourite. I can take or leave (mostly leave) the criminal profiler ones.

This is far too logical. Logic is bigoted.

Actually I didn’t see the original interview this is from, what does she mean by ‘Womanhood’? Does she mean Womanhood is a club that isn’t exclusively adult human females (ie could include drag artists, effeminate men etc) or does she mean she believes men are women, no difference between the two?

‘Does she mean Womanhood is a club that isn’t exclusively adult human females (ie could include drag artists, effeminate men etc)’

I think it’s this. She perceives women who know what women are as mean-spirited gatekeepers. All we have to do - such a tiny, insignificant thing! - is move over and ‘expand’ our definition to fit anyone who wants it, and who wouldn’t do that? Bigots, that’s who.

‘ men are women’ …. And don’t you say otherwise!!!

I read her latest book recently and it was very good. I’m disappointed in her views around this but considering she’s very close to Sturgeon, it’s not really surprising.

And yes as a PP suggested, it’s definitely a Circus tent we will need if the menz are allowed in.

So she's effectively saying 'Womanhood is a big tent. It embraces me and Kim Barbie Kardashian'.

Umm, ok then Val, you do you, I'm not in the same fucking tent as BK, in any way apart from the widest umbrella of 'human'

It sounds as if Val is 'being kind' to some of the trans people she knows but isn't aware of being anything but kind to other women

She knows much more about politics than that. People prioritise. I think she's saying she might identify about as much with (naice) trans women who use a lot of artifice to look more feminine and engage with gender and LGBTQ+ politics, as with a straight woman who uses a lot of artifice to look more feminine and wouldn't recognise gender etc politics if it rode past on a sparkly pony.

(Though this is speculation. Obvs I don't know what she really thinks.)

everyone seems to know lots of trans people,

She's always been a visible and active part of her LGBT(etc) community so I'm sure she does.

I think she's mistaken about this, but she's certainly not stupid or ignorant or dishonest. I respectfully disagree with her.

@achillestoes I read this as Lady Bouncerful.

I didn't pick up any bitchiness from that quote. She's a very good writer, so I don't think 'dim' really applies either.

That woman needs a one way ticket to mountain warehouse.

There is a distinct & important group of humans that are manly men, all the dregs can be rounded up & stuck in the woman tent 🙄

Also "Nicola Sturgeon is my BFF" 🤢

How's about we sell her a blancmange, telling her it's a tent?

If a 300-foot event marquee and a small 2-person jobbie can both be a tent, there's certainly room in our camping shop for blancmange.

Then we can see how many men fit into a blancmange.

Val McDiarmid, Sandy Toksvig — such a disappointment to so many lesbians.

She's a good writer (some of her stuff is far too violent for me, though).

Men can't be women.

Necessary jobbies has a different meaning in Scotland. Don't offer to do a jobbie in anyone's tent, it won't go down well. Ditto blancmanges, for that matter.