What does Val McDermid mean?

[achillestoes]

“My view of gender politics is you bring people into the tent. Womanhood is a big tent. It embraces me and Kim Kardashian. There’s certainly room in that tent for the trans women I know.”

Translate. Right answers only.

Also.

I kinda think there's some part of her lack of experience of what a relationship with men can mean for women is playing into this. She's an expert intellectually in this but not in real life.

She's stuck 25 years ago in attitudes.

That's not a tent, it's a marquee!

It does seem impossible to even attempt to justify why TWAW without insulting some women.

If you're going to let TW in, you have to let them all in. Not just the nice ones you know, but also those like Karen White, Yaniv, Katie Dolatowski and Barbie Kardashian.

@OldCrone

I don’t want to go inside that tent.

Womanhood is a big tent.

It sounds fun and inclusive, but means fuck all. Once everyone can get into the tent that is womenhood, then what? Womenhood becomes just being human. Everyone is in the huge tent, and we're back to not recognising women.

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo

Indeed. Humanity is a big tent. Womanhood is also a big tent but it isn’t as big as the humanity tent.

Isn’t she buddy buddy with Sturgeon? Presumably keeping her onside, no idea if she means it, but she actually makes herself sound stupid with those comments. And yes, her comment about KK is definitely bitchy. Thick and bitchy, not a great look from an author I’ve enjoyed reading for years.

How ironic that tents are held up by extendable poles.

And she's wrong, of course.

‘Presumably keeping her onside, no idea if she means it, but she actually makes herself sound stupid with those comments.’

She means it. She honestly believes the variety of personal presentations within womanhood = womanhood.

Sorry: and outside womanhood.

The irony is, of course, that she kicked off dramatically about a man found guilty of rape in a civil case being signed to play for the football team she supports and sponsors, withdrawing her sponsorship and protesting vocally.

Which I applauded her for.

But also - TWAW and are all allowed into the tent as and when they please and never mind the way in which that might violate the rights of biological women and girls?

Is this the tent?

😂DialaSquare

What's Kim Kardashian got to do with the price of chops?

@User2145738790

VD clearly considers KK some sort of extreme specimen of womanhood, such that it’s less of a stretch to say a man is a woman than to say Kim is. I think.

I read it as her saying that she and KK are at two opposite extremes of womanhood in terms of gender stereotyped presentation/behaviour. Why it then follows that men can be women I don’t know.

I’m surprised, I thought she was friends with JKR, although I know she’s a big Sturgeon and independence supporter. I’d have thought she’d take a slightly more nuanced view.
I think, as it so often is with people who you would fully expect to understand the concerns about self id and the medical treatment of children, it comes down to personal relationships. Interesting that she referred to the trans women SHE knew.

From what I’ve seen of publishing it must be pretty hard, and probably career damaging, to be anything but TWAW but I thought Val McDermid might be too big to cancel but maybe not?

‘I read it as her saying that she and KK are at two opposite extremes of womanhood in terms of gender stereotyped presentation/behaviour.’

That, without the interaction with ‘what is a woman’ (her topic of choice) would be an uncontroversial observation. But she isn’t actually saying that. She’s saying she and KK are at two opposite extremes of womanhood. Not feminine presentation.

Agree, it’s muddled thinking at best or else a wilful blindness to the difference between sex and gender stereotypes.

In case that wasn’t clear, I meant the difference between gender stereotypes and sex.

She seems to be displaying an entry level understanding of the issues with that statement. Either that or she’s being deliberately disingenuous.

Feminists bring all marginalised people into our circle of care.

Good point. These blokes in dresses have no time for men and neither do I. Hey , they must be lesbians!

Flawless logic.