Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

[aseriesofstillimages]

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

@AmIOvaryacting That is what I was thinking too.
No knowledge of female sexuality. Seemingly trying to bargain to get into a dating pool that is not interested in OP joining the dating pool.
And no, I am not lesbian, but I will fight to my dying breath for any woman's right to say no to any penis.

well, depends on how you define ‘man’, but having just had an excruciating smear test, I think you’d probably put me in the ‘woman’ category

OP has tired of questioning the validity of same sex attraction so is having a go at ethnicity instead.

Oh to be one of those people for whom they are purely academic questions....

Was this written by a man? There seems to be absolutely no knowledge about female sexuality from the poster.

As you’ve discovered, we are not allowed to make these observations. But wasn’t that a helpful clarification about the smear test?

Indeed.

Seems that this is a thought exercise for the OP. I don't really understand the total lack of empathy to treat people of colour and lesbians as an academic exercise.

You know there are lots of people who think the academic study of concepts like race and sex and sexuality is quite important - including a lot of people from minority/marginalised groups?

Yes.

I met many of them during my two funded Master's degrees in the social sciences and my AHRC-funded PhD.

I also met a lot of people who have no idea what they are talking about and like to speak over minority groups while not understanding a damn thing about them.

And let's be honest about this, the sole purpose of trying to deconstruct and rearrange female homosexuals is so that male people are better suited in their identities and choices of sexual partners.

The female homosexuals are not being permitted a voice in this and are being told things like 'learn to cope' (with unwanted straight sex) as a social duty.

No, this isn't a nice academic wander through the possibilities, this is straight foward sexism and homophobia, however you try to wrap it and make it sound all learned. And it's bloody ugly stuff that anyone with half a brain should be thoroughly ashamed of involving themselves in. Leave female homosexuals alone and quit fiddling around with them so they're more useful to males.

you're still not addressing the context @aseriesofstillimages

no comments about the long history of creepy men being sexually fixated on lesbians

no explanation about why these particular men are different

I mean you've referenced smear tests so I'm assuming you acknowledge that sex is a thing?

I'm a minority/marginalized group. I'm a Lesbian!
And we don't want to be colonized by transwomen who are male.
Isn't that simple.
Respect Lesbian boundaries.
Transwomen; Enjoy Queer groups; they're for you!

Lesbians are solely bio women who are attracted and love other bio women.

This is a public service message posted by same-sex attracted women

I’m fully aware of the context - my partner and I have experienced creepy men coming onto us. And the occasional pushy lesbian. The bottom line is, you don’t pressure people, or pursue people who aren’t interested in you, and you don’t touch people without their consent. If anyone does any of those things, they should be told where to go in no uncertain terms.

the implication of what you’re all saying is that straight women have less of a right to say no to a man than lesbians do - surely that can’t be right? We all have the right to say no - to unwanted sexual contact, attention, whatever - without giving a reason.

And you are trying to reframe homosexuality to be attraction to 'gender'. Which while being a bullshit concept to many, it is also flagrantly homophobic. And on top of that, you have the audacity to think you know better than lesbians about being a lesbian.

You are asking gay women to reframe their sexuality because there are straight men who want to have sex with them.

Ah, I also wanted to post this for my straight sisters, who are kind and sympathetic to effiminate gay men, Lesbians know about this but you probably might not.
True story: around 2019 an effeminate gay man whom I'm acquaintance-friendly with for about a year over a mutual interest, posts in facebook about letting transwomen and effeminate gay men in women's bathrooms.

Now, I know him. He has zero interest in women, I could probably beat him up too.
I said:
"Women have periods, hot flushes and other problems, we need our privacy away from men.
Why don't you start a project with other gay men to change male bathroom culture to be welcoming to trans and feminine gay men."

Well, he had zero interest in that! I told him: "You're 34, I'm not your mother, it's time for you to do the work and get off your behind."

He blocked me.
The majority of Gay men feel for other men, whether they are transwomen or effeminate gay men. They expect women to be their mothers and be kind and do the work for them.

Ladies: BE UNKIND!

The bottom line is, you don’t pressure people, or pursue people who aren’t interested in you

what, like being a man and signing up to a lesbian dating app? or being a man and joining a lesbian social group?

the implication of what you’re all saying is that straight women have less of a right to say no to a man than lesbians do - surely that can’t be right?

nah. but straight women don't provide validation to men who want their identity to be validated by dating a 'lesbian'

We all have the right to say no - to unwanted sexual contact, attention, whatever - without giving a reason.

yes indeed. I read your BBC article, would you take a look at this one?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385

it's called 'The lesbians who feel pressured to have sex and relationships with trans women'

I presume you're aware of Nancy Kelly (head of stonewall)'s 'lesbians are sexual racists' comment:

Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.

it's rather naive to say that lesbians are not experiencing any coercion to 'include men (you would say transwomen) in their dating pool' isn't it?

that used to be called straight up homophobia in my day....

You are asking gay women to reframe their sexuality because there are straight men who want to have sex with them.

I'm afraid this is what it boils down to @aseriesofstillimages

I'm wondering why you're scrambling around to do this work for men?

Yes this right here. And she is making it sound as if she is the only educated person in this and we’re all just simpletons who lack compassion and are sorely unlearned.

back on 12 August you said this OP

to be honest, if a person said they were a trans woman but had taken no steps at all to transition - whether medically or socially - I would internally question what it means for them to be a woman, or trans. And if a woman who said they were a lesbian was in a relationship with that person, I would internally question what it means for them to be a lesbian

so I think for you what turns a man into a transwoman, therefore no longer a man, and so definitely not a straight man trying to use lesbians for validation, is the amount of effort he has put into transition.

I'm interested in what you would expect that effort to look like? where does our man cross the line, and become a transwoman?

I mean, I’m trying to give you all the benefit of the doubt, but the evidence is pointing that way

Sorry I’m drunk that was uncalled for

I don’t think you can draw a ‘bright line’ - it’s fuzzy and subjective. Like the difference between a straight person and a bisexual (or a gay person and a bisexual)

Why do you think I’m in this argument for anyone other than myself? I just hold passionate beliefs about this, and don’t buy into this ‘us and them’ mentality.

You'd like it to be fuzzy and subjective, and are arguing hard for it to be so, largely because you'd like people who aren't actually homosexual females to use the word and identity they'd like to try on without feeling guilt about it.

I'm not helping you out with that.

You're helping male people bully homosexual females into straight sex, and shun and exclude the ones who won't co operatively submit to conversion. You can't have it both ways. Either you respect the right of people to be homosexual and to have their own terms and identity, or you feel there is the right of non homosexual people to control and use them for their own purposes. Which is it?

Hang on, what is the fuzzy line between a straight person and a bisexual?

I see no fuzzy line. Either you like penis or vagina, or you like both. That's isn't fuzzy, it's very clear.