80 year old woman banned from pool for standing up for little girls

[Misstache]

This poor woman dedicated her life to defending women and girls. She heard a male voice while in the shower at her local pool, looked out and saw a TW changing near 4 or 5 little girls while staring at them. She stepped in, asked if the TW had a penis, and got banned and the pool staff threatened to call police on her. They lied and said she said all kinds of profane things. This is so disgusting. I feel so bad for her.

reduxx.info/senior-woman-banned-from-local-pool-after-expressing-concern-over-male-in-womens-washroom/

I find it quite sick that biological males are so desperate to get into women and girls safe spaces.

I've read a fair few tales lately of transwomen who've felt perfectly entitled to question lesbians about their genitalia to ensure they're not accidentally attempting to cop off with a man - complete with a penis. Because, in that situation transwomen, apparently, AREN'T women enough.

@Didimum I'll be extremely surprised if there's a single female who has ever been prosecuted for the 'intrusive staring of a sexual nature that causes harassment, alarm or distress' in UK, please find me an evidence of that, but I'm aware of that law, thanks.

So OK, if that male person was fully naked and with a full erection, but not staring, that would be just fine, nothing to see here, nothing to worry about, is that your proposal for UK?

@Didimum *any evidence. And apologies, you don't have to provide the evidence, that was unnecessarily combative - just illustrating that that is a very male behaviour, and would not be typically something that happens in female changing rooms.

I am absolutely not arguing theoretical wrongdoings with you. There was not nudity, there was not an erection. I responded to this thread on the basis of a specific incident, and I've made it overwhelmingly clear that that is all I am talking about. I don't care if you think I should be debating or defending any other scenario you'd like to propose.

'Transition' means nothing at all. You cannot even ask someone if they identify as a women. So if you say TW can enter female changing rooms then ANY man can do so without making any changes to his appearance or clothes regardless of whether they identify as a TW or not. Hardly a barrier for paedophiles if they can walk through the door unchallenged?Not like training to be a teacher, entering a seminary or leading a scout group every week.

Thank you for saying that. Respectfully, so as also not to be combative, I am not here to debate and defend proposed theoretical wrongdoings. Do those incidents exist? I'm sure they do – and I will comment on those specific threads if I choose to.

'No nudity'

So what was he doing in the changing room? If he was changing into a swimming costume or out of one then nudity would be involved. If he wasn't changing then we are left with a man in the female changing room doing nothing but watching young girls get changed.

Clementine is definitely and very obviously a man

if you are in a women’s changing rooms and Clementine joins you, it is completely legitimate to challenge them. I can’t tell by looking at a man how he identifies. I’d ask any man why he was in the women’s changing rooms

unless anyone can explain a fool proof method for identifying men who are trying it on and fancy intimidating some women (as happened to me recently in Waterloo station public loos), versus men who sincerely believe themselves to be women, what am I to do?

@Didimum Well, nobody's saying what you should or should not be arguing or debating, that's your choice.

The scenario I described was not hypothetical, but based on Wi Spa incident in LA (although the erection was described as 'partial'). Your lack of knowledge is your issue.

Many women on this board, however, appreciate that in this country we're not in the same position, although trans rights organisations would like us to be.

Your comments on this thread are incredibly incident-specific and pointless. There were no laws broken, no safety issues to report, but it is morally indefensible. You're trying to wriggle around that.

The laws apply to all, and the discussion is about what should be happening here, legally and morally.

Please feel free to not engage further, if you're not prepared to discuss wider issues raised by this incident and/or lack knowledge to do so.

Who knew it was a competition? I thought it was a conversation…

And your assertions on my "knowledge" and comments being "pointless", are your opinion – not fact. I already said I was unfamiliar with the Wi Spa incident, that I would read into it, but that I would not conflate it with this thread. And yes, I support any claims and legal/moral judgements to be incident-specific and not conflated with unrelated incidents.

Luckily, in UK, you can come complain to the service provider and quote latest EHRC guidance.

However, until statutory EHRC guidance (under review I believe) is published, and/or the Equality Act is strengthened, you may not force those service providers to ensure single-sex provision without the court case (see posts by IamSarah for an egregious example).

The endgame of transactivism is men's sexual rights. There are men who are enjoying telling women that they can walk in on us when we are naked and there is nothing we can do about it, even if they don't intend to do it themselves. They know the threat alone has power. These men have been waiting for a way to crush women out of public and political space for decades, and trans ideology has handed it to them.

@Didimum sorry if my last post was a tad unpleasant in tone.

I agree the legal v moral argument is separate.

As to conflation of incidents - that's not how the laws are written though, are they? They cover the worst case scenarios.

That scenario would be a naked male with full erection, staring or not (hard to prove the latter, v few cases go to prosecution in UK based on the clause you mentioned), legally allowed in all and any space previously provided ONLY for females.

So do we want these same laws here? I'd say no, but that's just my opinion.

@drakeandjosh Do you keep a score somewhere, maybe on a spreadsheet?What fascinating hobby!

I will go and read up on the wi spa incident.

By conflating, I mean I don't agree with saying 'person A of X demographic in X incident' was wrong, therefore this applies to all of X demographic when accused of a similar wrongdoing/crime.

I understand the conflation of TW in women's spaces is the umbrella issue in both cases, and that it why it's being brought up. And that is the point of contention.

Interestingly, my husband would be 100% on your side on this thread. We are still able to have (fairly) friendly debates about it – though they have not always been that friendly!

The point is simple. If there's a man in the changing rooms - you are not allowed to challenge. End of.

@Didimum I'm not at all surprised you can have friendly debates with your husband-so can I, on this and other contentious issues. All debates should and can be conducted on friendly, or at least civilized, way, I think

Interesting that more men see this conflict clearer than women, and I'm not sure why.

Possibly female socialization, possibly 'men know their own', that is are privy to all-male conversations, but a proven stat in latest YouGov poll.

That's the case here, yes. He thinks the majority of men act deplorably in changing rooms (his opinion).

Who would have believed a few years ago that the YMCA would consider it acceptable for men to stand and watch little girls undress, and if you complained you were a bigot.

I have been a woman for all of my 80 years. I don’t intend on changing. But it erases me. Because if that’s a woman… what am I?”
Still a woman. Trans people existing dpes not make you less of one!