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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

761 replies

Justme56 · 04/08/2022 08:13

Sorry I can't share the article, but liked this:

What is the funniest thing that has happened in your job?

As a result of my work in this area, apparently becoming an object of admiration on Mumsnet [the Internet parents' forum] - improbable in many ways.

😁

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2022 20:59

As the thread seems to have been thoroughly derailed, maybe we should talk about someone else tangentially related or mentioned on the thread? Helleofabore has mentioned a few...

FigRollsAlly · 20/08/2022 21:10

Hearach is now defending TRA racism on the Allison Bailey’s spaghetti briefcase thread.

TheBiologyStupid · 20/08/2022 21:13

Ben Cooper was The Time's Lawyer of the Week - Hearche seems to be angling to take up the title of Stonewall Lawyer [sic] of the Decade at this rate. Give it a rest and get back on topic if you have anything useful to contribute to this thread.

ClariceC · 20/08/2022 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Hearach15 · 20/08/2022 21:16

FigRollsAlly · 20/08/2022 21:10

Hearach is now defending TRA racism on the Allison Bailey’s spaghetti briefcase thread.

I don't actually know anything about her spaghetti briefcase, I just know her falsely blaming trans people for trying to poison her dog is exactly what I would expect from a GC who blames trans people for everything! 😂

RhannionKPSS · 20/08/2022 21:55

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RhannionKPSS · 20/08/2022 21:58

Just one last comment MW is a he, not a she, I won’t play your game, the stakes in my country are too high.

IcakethereforeIam · 20/08/2022 22:10

Cavalier with women's rights?Hmm

Hearach15 · 20/08/2022 22:10

This reply has been deleted

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I really do not like Sturgeon at all.

I remember being so happy the day the referendum result came in! All those hours of canvassing had paid off. What a victory it was. Truly, we are better together!

However, on the issue of trans rights I am completely in her camp. I thought this very moving:

"Can you define a woman? She was heavily criticised at the local elections for refusing to do so.

"She says: “The vast majority of women are people like us, who were born women and are biological women, and a very small number who are trans women – who are women. When that question is asked, usually it’s an invitation to exclude the tiny number of women who are trans,” she says, her frustration clear as her delivery accelerates, “and I am not going to do anything to further exclude and stigmatise them.”

"She repeats her earlier concern about the rightward direction of the Tory leadership contest. “There are real threats to women right now, from the attack on our reproductive rights, the misogyny that is still rife across our society, the threats and reality of sexual violence that women face on a daily basis. That’s what feminists should be focused on. Trans women are not the threat to women.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/13/nicola-sturgeon-feminism-independence-life-after-politics

On this issue and this issue alone, I say, 'Well said, Nicola!'

IcakethereforeIam · 20/08/2022 22:12

So, what's a woman? What's a lesbian?

Ben Cooper is a god.

Spare me from 'victories' like Stonewall's.

Cheers!🍺

IcakethereforeIam · 20/08/2022 22:14

X-post!

janeret · 20/08/2022 22:25

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janeret · 20/08/2022 22:26

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Helleofabore · 20/08/2022 23:07

Helleofabore · 20/08/2022 13:56

Now hearache

Are you fully comfortable with 100% of what

Peter Tatchell

Jane Fae

Nancy Kelley

say 100% of the time?

Your pointless distractions are tedious and dishonest.

Yes or No?

Just coming back to this.

Is that a yes or a no, Hearache?

Do you support the statements about ‘intergenerational’ sex (and more recently underage marriage!) that Peter Tatchell has made?

Yes or no?

Do you hold Peter Tatchell, Jane Fae and Nancy Kelley to the same standard as you are holding Baroness Nicholson?

Continued avoidance indicates that you are indeed a very hypocritical person. And really says all that needs to be said about you and your opinions.

Norma27 · 21/08/2022 06:29

As this thread is completely derailed anyway I want to say well done to @Helleofabore for standing up so resolutely to @Hearach15 absolute shitposting. All I am going to add now is I have been at several family events this week. I have asked probably 200 people if a born male can ever be a woman. I had to give prison examples to maybe 4 of them but every single person stated NO. @Hearach15 your crazy ideology is losing. Most of the people I asked were in their 20s and they think people like you are talking absolute bollocjs

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 07:02

Oh, and hearache, how did you feel you went on this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4606346-concept-of-exclusively-same-sex-attracted?page=1

This thread where lesbians are discussing just how horrified at them having their word taken and redefined.

Something Stonewall have been very active in doing?

Did you listen to the lesbian’s there?

You think telling me to ‘genuinely’ go and speak to more LGB people, as if I don’t have LGB people already in my life, is not at all transparent. You only want me to talk to more LGB who agree with you. To be ‘educated’.

How very hypocritical. Have you at anytime listened to and acknowledged those other opinions you have written off within the LGB population? Ever?

Or are they the wrong type of LGB people? The ones you just ignore?

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 07:16

Or are they the wrong type of LGB people?

And from your misogynistic posting on this thread, I would also guess those lesbians telling that OP they are fighting for their word back as anyone who believes a male can be a lesbian would be ignored by you anyway. Because they are female.

I would ‘genuinely’ suggest you go out and talk to more females outside your safe group, because I think you have no idea about what feminism activates for, or what a feminist perspective on rights and protections are for females and children outside your seemingly carefully curated bubble.

Curated because it seems you are intolerant to other’s who don’t share your exact view point. And in the past, I have linked you up to the studies done that show just how intolerant 18-28 year old are vs older people. Yet they fully believe they are the most tolerant in society.

You continue to prove you cannot view any of your discussion points from a feminist perspective.

You absolutely have no idea how to take a child centred perspective in anything either. You simply cannot see that you only ever consider important issues impacting children from an adult perspective.

And I mean child-centred, I don’t mean childish.

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 08:36

While we are talking about ‘wins’ and Stonewall and experts.

I am looking forward to seeing a translation of this article.

twitter.com/montserratvano/status/1561070052836884480?s=21&t=Udrg2c8yf8SFFtsHd1bqNA

I guess that Stonewall will claim that a Nobel laureate Developmental Biologist Christiane Nüsslein-Volhard saying there are only two sexes is not ‘expert’ enough in clearing up the misinformation spread by Nancy Kelley’s tweet this week. The one where she quoted : "Modern culture has a vested interest in pretending that only female and male exist because enemies of LGBT people recognise it’s important to erase intersex people in order to uphold homophobia".

twitter.com/nancy_m_k/status/1560163238129680385?s=21&t=Udrg2c8yf8SFFtsHd1bqNA

No Nancy. Medical professionals and scientists tell us that people with differences in sex development can be categorised as male and female quite easily except in extremely rare instances.

But let’s wait for the EMMA article translation and see what an expert says.

(maybe Christiane is also not expert enough for some posters on this thread either though…)

Hearach15 · 21/08/2022 10:14

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 07:02

Oh, and hearache, how did you feel you went on this thread?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4606346-concept-of-exclusively-same-sex-attracted?page=1

This thread where lesbians are discussing just how horrified at them having their word taken and redefined.

Something Stonewall have been very active in doing?

Did you listen to the lesbian’s there?

You think telling me to ‘genuinely’ go and speak to more LGB people, as if I don’t have LGB people already in my life, is not at all transparent. You only want me to talk to more LGB who agree with you. To be ‘educated’.

How very hypocritical. Have you at anytime listened to and acknowledged those other opinions you have written off within the LGB population? Ever?

Or are they the wrong type of LGB people? The ones you just ignore?

Are you telling me these lesbians you apparently know agree with LGB Alliance supporter Baroness Nicholson that two women marrying is "degrading" and that lesbians families are neither "natural nor normal" and that there should be a different gay of consent for gay and straight couples? I very much doubt that.

Hearach15 · 21/08/2022 10:20

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 07:16

Or are they the wrong type of LGB people?

And from your misogynistic posting on this thread, I would also guess those lesbians telling that OP they are fighting for their word back as anyone who believes a male can be a lesbian would be ignored by you anyway. Because they are female.

I would ‘genuinely’ suggest you go out and talk to more females outside your safe group, because I think you have no idea about what feminism activates for, or what a feminist perspective on rights and protections are for females and children outside your seemingly carefully curated bubble.

Curated because it seems you are intolerant to other’s who don’t share your exact view point. And in the past, I have linked you up to the studies done that show just how intolerant 18-28 year old are vs older people. Yet they fully believe they are the most tolerant in society.

You continue to prove you cannot view any of your discussion points from a feminist perspective.

You absolutely have no idea how to take a child centred perspective in anything either. You simply cannot see that you only ever consider important issues impacting children from an adult perspective.

And I mean child-centred, I don’t mean childish.

"You continue to prove you cannot view any of your discussion points from a feminist perspective."

From a feminist point of view I believe two women marrying is a wonderful thing and is no way "degrading".

From a feminist point of view I believe two women can raise a child just as well as any straight couple.

From a feminist point of view I do not believe that there should be a different age of consent for a woman if she choses to take a female lover instead of a male lover.

Anyone who disagrees with me on these points (or defends those who do) are no feminists

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 12:02

Helleofabore · 20/08/2022 23:07

Just coming back to this.

Is that a yes or a no, Hearache?

Do you support the statements about ‘intergenerational’ sex (and more recently underage marriage!) that Peter Tatchell has made?

Yes or no?

Do you hold Peter Tatchell, Jane Fae and Nancy Kelley to the same standard as you are holding Baroness Nicholson?

Continued avoidance indicates that you are indeed a very hypocritical person. And really says all that needs to be said about you and your opinions.

Oh… here. You forgot to answer…

FlibbertyGiblets · 21/08/2022 12:09

Mr Peter Tatchell's views on some topics remain indefensible.

VestofAbsurdity · 21/08/2022 12:44

From a feminist point of view I do not believe that there should be a different age of consent for a woman if she choses to take a female lover instead of a male lover.

Up until 2001 there was no legislation in the UK concerning age of consent for lesbian sexual acts. So not a different age of consent, there wasn't one at all.

Helleofabore · 21/08/2022 13:27

Your twists serve only to show how little nuance you have in your ability to process information and how very polarised your understanding is.

From a feminist point of view I believe two women marrying is a wonderful thing and is no way "degrading".

And the Baroness was concerned how the term ‘marriage’ being used in law would impact the rights and women and girls.

A feminist point of view would look at the ramifications of the law and where conflicts arise, work out solutions.

I don’t have to remind you that there were lesbian feminists concerned about the use of the word marriage as well. We have repeatedly reminded you of that. Which you ignore.

From a feminist point of view I believe two women can raise a child just as well as any straight couple.

And again your simplistic cutting off all the nuance shows you again cannot see this from a child-centred perspective. And you cannot understand that many feminists also take a child centred perspective.

Plus your overly simplistic statement denies the impact on exploited women in the production of eggs and surrogacy.

You cannot detach the exploitation of women from the ‘fertility equality’ agenda.

From a feminist point of view I do not believe that there should be a different age of consent for a woman if she choses to take a female lover instead of a male lover.

This has been mentioned by vest.

Maybe hearache will now answer whether they will vilify publicly here and every social media platform, Peter Tatchell who is well known, although has tried to deny it, for stating not all intergenerational sex involving children is sex abuse… and supported keeping an underage wife together with her adult husband more recently. Amongst other things Tatchell has done and said.

Seems kind of pertinent that hearache finally answers whether they will go vilify Peter Tatchell and others with the same evangelical zeal as they demonise women who disagree with hearache.

RhannionKPSS · 21/08/2022 13:29

Hearach15 · 21/08/2022 10:20

"You continue to prove you cannot view any of your discussion points from a feminist perspective."

From a feminist point of view I believe two women marrying is a wonderful thing and is no way "degrading".

From a feminist point of view I believe two women can raise a child just as well as any straight couple.

From a feminist point of view I do not believe that there should be a different age of consent for a woman if she choses to take a female lover instead of a male lover.

Anyone who disagrees with me on these points (or defends those who do) are no feminists

Who the hell are you to decide who is feminist & who isn’t...