Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

[Justme56]

Sorry I can't share the article, but liked this:

What is the funniest thing that has happened in your job?

As a result of my work in this area, apparently becoming an object of admiration on Mumsnet [the Internet parents' forum] - improbable in many ways.

😁

"Yours is the only argument here putting females at risk."

Actually trans healthcare is associated with huge benefits:

"For transgender individuals, gender-affirming surgery can lead to long-term mental health benefits, according to new research published online today in The American Journal of Psychiatry. The study found that among transgender individuals with gender incongruence, undergoing gender-affirming surgery was significantly associated with a decrease in mental health treatment over time."

psychiatry.org/news-room/news-releases/study-finds-long-term-mental-health-benefits-of-ge

I will take something written in the American Journal of Psychiatry as far more factual than something written by an individual who is a self-described "non-expert" on LGBT issues.

Why don't you have a problem with NHS policies that exclude female transitioners from normal care reminders, regardless of whether they still have a cervix?

This design means female transitioners don't receive the same healthcare provision as other females.

"Why don't you have a problem with NHS policies that exclude female transitioners from normal care reminders, regardless of whether they still have a cervix?"

Presuming from this that you mean trans men and I support individuals getting all the medical care they need to live long and healthy lives. There's a lot the NHS needs to do to improve trans healthcare.

Actually trans healthcare is associated with huge benefits:

Pretty much irrelevant to my original post and my answering posts since.

individual who is a self-described "non-expert" on LGBT issues.

Actually hearache, I guess you need reminding again that you are posting misogynistic posts on a feminist board. And you have no expertise as a ‘feminist’, or any knowledge at all from your posts, and just as little knowledge of the female experience.

And you have shown you aren’t even interested… yet you persist in posting here and then hypocritically telling me that I have no ‘expertise’ on LGBT issues. Again… on a feminist board on Mumsnet! On Mumsnet!

Plus, While I said I wasn’t LGB, I would say I might be more well read than you are on issues around not only the needs of females but also the health issues of female trans people. And issues facing young trans people.

You might remember that you are not the only person to know trans people. And ‘knowing’ trans people doesn’t make you any expert at all. I guess you must know females too, yet seem to simply disregard them and their need.

Please do continue to dismiss my posts, it just shows your lack of any contribution other than pithy statements and ignorance.

Oh and I don’t think your distractive techniques are working. Most posters are now just ignoring you. I engage because I had hopes that you would actually take in what feminism is about since you are persisting in posting on this thread.

Every day at the moment there is yet another example of just how Stonewall’s reputation is diminishing.

And how that is interlinked with that win you are so gleeful about.

Winning!

As far as i am aware, your medical marker on your records doesn't say 'Female - manly though' it will say 'Male' and thus be treated as a male. And males do not have babies.

Here's a reminder from the page you linked.

If you're a trans man registered with a GP as male, you will not receive automatic invitations. You can still have cervical screening. You'll need to ask your GP practice for an appointment.

Oh dear!

we have been though this ‘gotcha’ moment before!

You might want to READ the link you posted.

Seriously, do you never learn?

Read the link.

This fucking deja vu. It simply proves you never actually read posts. You never actually read what you even post. I pointed out this is a retracted paper before. On other fucking threads!!!

I will take something written in the American Journal of Psychiatry as far more factual than something written by an individual who is a self-described "non-expert" on LGBT issues.

Yeah… righto!

i mean seriously, WTAF!

And again, a weak argument that is ideologically driven and actually not relevant considering there is a pretty large department there advising her.

But crack on dismissing her because ‘well, she is a Tory’! And just being generally ignorant about it.

By the way, did you see the rumour about the next department withdrawing support from Stonewall… I wonder which one it is ….

"Actually trans healthcare is associated with huge benefits:

"Pretty much irrelevant to my original post and my answering posts since."

The mental health of trans people is actually very important and relevant to the topic of trans healthcare.

"I would say I might be more well read than you are on issues around not only the needs of females but also the health issues of female trans people. And issues facing young trans people."

Firstly, the fact that you call trans men "female trans people" shows how lacking in empathy you are for them. I also think it is interesting that you believe you are "well read" on issues pertaining to young trans people and better informed than I am. I highly doubt that as you're previously said you not an "expert on LGBT issues", so I don't see how much wisdom has been accrued in the space of a few weeks.

Secondly, this isn't an academic subject you can just read about. To be truly well informed about this issue you have to meet the trans community and I suspect you haven't done that. How many trans people would you talk to on a regular basis? How many trans events have you gone to? Have you marched for their rights alongside the community?

I would usually suggest that you might do this but as you like to misgender trans people I don't think they should have to endure that. I suggest you leave this issue to those of us who know trans people, empathise with their struggles and want them to be their true selves.

"But crack on dismissing her because ‘well, she is a Tory’! And just being generally ignorant about it."

I am not dismissive of her because she's a Conservative. There are plenty of politicians I respect.

I am dismissive of her because she is the Attorney General of a Government that regularly breaks the law.

Do you really think this is a law abiding Government?

Simply not true!

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell

I see what you did there

FM is a female transitioner. A "transman".

Not male. You doughnut.

"His mother used to tell him “I loved being pregnant. Everybody should experience it – especially men.”" 😘

What a shame they can't though

What a pity they can't.

The history of the human race would be very different.

Can you find an example of a non- transman man who has conceived and given birth?

cheers.

And you can’t have Arnie in Junior.

Which bit the one about your medical marker saying 'female but manly'?

Because you have posted a link to a female that gave birth.

Did you mean to post something that completely proves my point?

An you are trying to distract people from the fact that female people of all genders need clear language for them and their carers, families etc. PLUS their sex markers clear on their medical records.

AND you posted a study as an appeal to authority that was retracting their conclusions.

You have continually posted misogynistic posts on a feminist board, and I don’t even believe you read anything posted properly, nor do you do anything but post anything that seems to quickly match a Google search as a gotcha that frequently backfires on you.

I am quite well read on young trans people which you have proven on several times to have no knowledge on bar the superficial. Because you have little idea who the majority of young people are who declare trans identities. You have proven that also on past threads.

I, as have others on this board, have loved ones who are trans. We have told you this. YOU choose to ignore what we say.

I have not misgendere anyone. I have used their appropriate SEX. Especially in regards to discussing their health needs and their needs as females. On a feminist board.

Again you attempt to distract from the fact you are posting harmful misinformation, misogynistic posts, and fucking studies that even the researchers admitted were NOT PROVING ANYTHING CONCLUSIVE! Certainly you have posted it before as a ‘gotcha’ and had this explained.

Thanks for that link @Hearach15, very illuminating 'erratum' section:

'Upon request, the authors reanalyzed the data to compare outcomes between individuals diagnosed with gender incongruence who had received gender-affirming surgical treatments and those diagnosed with gender incongruence who had not. While this comparison was performed retrospectively and was not part of the original research question given that several other factors may differ between the groups, the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that comparison'.

Amazing how each one of these 'studies' don't actually show what you think they show, if properly analyzed.

It's a bit like your interpretation of the law, or the implications of recent judgments for Stonewall et al.

You just keep denying it's true, and think your denial of it is going to matter, very odd

And just today it fully dawned on me just what we've done to the most vulnerable adolescents in our society.

I've thought of the young people I know that have actually had the hormones and the surgery (out of the personal experience of about 10 who identify as trans who are/were my children's friends) and these were the most traumatized (2 girls 1 boy)

We've given our children the wrong way to help them cope with difficulties of their autism and trauma, and I feel ashamed that I didn't realise the full implications of this movement until about 3 years ago, and I'm ashamed to be part of a society that thought this entirely acceptable.

And I'm also ashamed of not being brave enough to talk about it publicly, like many other women (and some notable men) have done. I'll try and do better.

What has been apparent from the very first thread hearache is your deep prejudice against people on Mumsnet. Despite some of us telling you time and time again that YES WE KNOW and LOVE trans people. Some of us have young trans people in our daily life. Hence, we KNOW a great deal about them and their needs and their lives.

Are you so arrogantly pompous that you just continue to ignore this, and to remain in your echo chamber where you believe you can take the moral high ground while gleefully thinking you have something over posters? Or are you going to start acknowledging that maybe you twist and distract and dismiss because you really do have a superficial knowledge on young trans people and females.

All you do on these threads is continue to repetitiously display a lack of ability to discuss debate. Your posts don’t engage and present relevant information. It does fuck all for the people you preport to support. It frankly presents the extremist view of their needs and your tactics echo those extreme activists on other platforms.

I may be wrong but I detect a case of Frankfurt's On Bullshit when it comes to the plausible explanations for some posters and whether they're engaging in good faith and have any care for the topic on hand.

It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who lies is thereby responding to the truth, and he is to that extent respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he says only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.

www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf