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How to square the circle of my trans sceptism and my trans friend?
116

bluegardenflowers · 29/07/2022 21:12

I am totally against trans 'women' in womens spaces, in womens sports, in bastardising the language of pronouns and all the vitriol from some trans men (regardless of what they identify as) dish out. Abusing children with hormone blockers and all that is horrendous.

However I have a male friend, who transitioned a few years ago and who I supported through the tart dressing phase, the boob surgery, the fallout with his ex wife and children, etc. Now 'she' is in a relationship with a woman and has calmed down with the overtly sexual dressing and is back to the nice 'man' but as a woman she always was. I accept her as a person who made a choice, rather that a woman because I believe all genders are just people with male and female traits. She doesn't use womens toilets, or changing rooms, and just discretely goes about her business. Doesn't bang on about LGBT+ issues and is just a normal person. albeit quite a masculine looking woman.

Do others with this situation feel friendship and understanding of the individual and sympathy for their difficulties, or are they all lumped together as something that shouldn't be accepted lying down?

OP's posts:
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LK1972 · 01/08/2022 22:49

I do find it amusing that I predicted your previous posts won't stand @Pluvia.

For the lurkers, or anyone willing to dance around the rules - why does my comment referring to to the book stands, but Pluvia's post naming the women's objection to the manifestations of the condition described in the book are deleted?

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LK1972 · 01/08/2022 22:55

And I apologise, I feel @ShirleyPhallus is in stage 4 'the flounce', rather than previous misdiagnosis.

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LK1972 · 01/08/2022 22:58

I shall await the 'plopping' and/or friendly support stage (sorry if this feels like adding nuance to the convo with last variation, bad habits Shock)

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GoodThinkingMax · 02/08/2022 00:58

Roseglen84 · 01/08/2022 16:34

Pluvia
I can imagine having a transwoman on the periphery of my social circle if they use male facilities (changing rooms etc) and respect the differences between them and those of us with XX chromosomes. Knowing that a man has transitioned later in life, leaving a wife and children for a life in heels and mini-skirts (going from what the OP says) would incline me to suspect that this individual was living out their sexual fantasies in RL — which is not something I'd want to be involved with as a non-consenting participant.

This is something that baffles me about the handmaidens that go along with this crap - do they really not understand that it is sexual in nature, that the desire for 'girly mode' is nothing more than a big wankfest?
Would they be equally ok with their friend Dave co-opting them into his foot fetish? How is this any different?

If it were something like this then yes, we’re definitely being co-opted into someone else’s fantasy

twitter.com/godblesstoby/status/1551344298523869184?s=21&t=I_tVWxTR91ihJfg-EzFOXQ

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oldwomanwhoruns · 02/08/2022 07:31

And (from the OP's original post) that is the situation here, @GoodThinkingMax The OP supported this person whilst they dumped the wife & children for their shiny new fantasy.
I think by now we are all aware of the damage this does to the transwidows and children. It's not just like supporting a pal through their divorce.

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SouthernFashionista · 02/08/2022 07:37

Your friend sounds like he’s had his cake and eaten it. I hope his kids are doing ok.

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Helleofabore · 02/08/2022 08:03

YetAnotherSpartacus · 01/08/2022 10:50

This is honestly the exact kind of shit that puts women off posting on FWR because of these oddly aggressive posts.

And this isn't aggressive?

Apparently not Spartacus.

That would also suggest a lack of self awareness about the hypocritical policing of tone that happens on this board constantly. I am in awe of any regular reader who fails to pick up that women are just so fucked off at being censured and censored, that they would think posting something that attempts to tone police would be accepted.

It is like the constant policing of who women should read, listen to or talk about.

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Pluvia · 02/08/2022 13:09

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

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TinselAngel · 02/08/2022 13:18

who I supported through the tart dressing phase, the boob surgery, the fallout with his ex wife and children, etc.

Do I feel friendship and understanding? No I save that for the ex wife and children.

A thread about how you should all be kind to our exes on a board frequented by trans widows, is pretty unpleasant.

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Pluvia · 02/08/2022 14:05

Wow. Someone's watching me closely. But we know.

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LK1972 · 02/08/2022 15:04

Pluvia · 02/08/2022 14:05

Wow. Someone's watching me closely. But we know.

Yep, your post got deleted within 5 mins of posting Wink

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Pluvia · 02/08/2022 16:14

Well, you at least know what I said! We may not be able to talk about the elephant in the room here, but someone clearly doesn't want anyone to know about it and so I'll be raising it at every opportunity I get so that all women who know me know about you-know-what. I see a lot of posts about transpeople quietly going about their lives not wanting any attention. People have no idea.

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kebabmeatandchips · 02/08/2022 16:22

"women"

Use of inverted commas is disgusting here

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kebabmeatandchips · 02/08/2022 16:23

SouthernFashionista · 02/08/2022 07:37

Your friend sounds like he’s had his cake and eaten it. I hope his kids are doing ok.

HER

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ThunderstomsAreComing · 02/08/2022 17:12

I've got friends who are actively and passionately believers in christianity - I am not. They mention their church activities because it is an important part of who they are, I've been to christian weddings, christenings, funerals because of my relationship with them - they don't try to convince me that they are right.

Friends don't have to agree on everything - even things that matter to them.

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najene · 02/08/2022 18:18

kebabmeatandchips · 02/08/2022 16:22

"women"

Use of inverted commas is disgusting here

Not at all. Scare quotes indicate OP doesn't consider her trans friend actually to be a woman. That's fine. (And true, it would appear.)

What is strange (not "disgusting", a strange choice of epithet (not scare quotes there, just quote-quotes!)) is OP's writing "as a woman she always was" of her friend, a trans woman (and so never a woman, always a man). No doubt you think that disgusting. But, well, some of us think you are wrong so to think.

I'm not sure why trans ideology is so over the top in its expression ('literal violence', 'disgusting' and so on). It seems to be a kind of aesthetic built-in to the discourse, possibly ultimately deriving from the sort of extreme full-on screech-talk characteristic of many erstwhile transvestite men back in the day when I was young (long ago). Not really fun then, even; much less now.

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Helleofabore · 02/08/2022 18:51

najene

Ahh! But! Many who come to shame the posters on FWR threads are predictably prone to hyperbole. It seems a very common trait.

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bluegardenflowers · 02/08/2022 18:58

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 01/08/2022 10:37

Is this a reverse?

checking my genitals..... no definitely not a reverse.

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Thissucksmonkeynuts · 02/08/2022 19:30

Sometimes (often) women keep men who pose a threat to their wellbeing or safety close to them, either as a case better the devil you know or not being able acknowledge the dissonance of somebody who is supposed to love them actually being harmful to them. It feels safer.

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howdoesatoastermaketoast · 02/08/2022 21:53

I suppose to answer your question OP I would approach it like being friends with a catholic (for example) - I do not believe in God. I believe that Catholic dogma is both misogynistic and homophobic. I can accept that historically the Catholic church has done much that could quite reasonably be described as evil. I accept as I once heard it described 'the Catholic church is exactly as evil as it can get away with in any given time and place.'

Nevertheless I could be friends with a person who was Catholic under certain conditions. So to bring it back to your situation I would say that there were 'red lines' and mine may well be in different places to you. I can and will 'be kind' etc. to a particular person upto the point where they crossed a 'red line'.

It isn't totally clear from your post but is your TW friend a heterosexual man who transitioned and is now engaged to a woman, or a homosexual/bisexual man who transitioned and is now engaged to a man? This would matter for me.

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bluegardenflowers · 02/08/2022 22:09

@howdoesatoastermaketoast When friend was a man he was heterosexual, married with 2 children never came on to me or other women, or other men. Now she has transitioned she is in a relationship with a lesbian and getting married. As a man always kind and considerate, made sure I got home safely on a night out with others etc. Now also a nice woman now things are more settled. I don't ask about their sexual practices needless to say.

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334bu · 02/08/2022 23:02

Now she has transitioned she is in a relationship with a lesbian and getting married.

Correction....your friend is in a relationship with a heterosexual/ bisexual woman. Lesbians are only same sex attracted and it is homophobic to suggest that a lesbian would be in a relationship with your friend who is biologically male.

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TinselAngel · 03/08/2022 00:06

When friend was a man he was heterosexual, married with 2 children never came on to me or other women, or other men.
Yes that's what trans widows exes all tell us.

Have you read our threads here, or our website OP?

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MangyInseam · 03/08/2022 00:23

Helleofabore · 02/08/2022 18:51

najene

Ahh! But! Many who come to shame the posters on FWR threads are predictably prone to hyperbole. It seems a very common trait.

It's a characteristic of identity politics overall.

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howdoesatoastermaketoast · 03/08/2022 08:42

I personally do not feel that the feelings of one partner man, or woman can overwrite the sexual orientation of the person they're in a relationship with.

This wouldn't be something I could just 'ignore' as it were - I guess its like asking if you can still be friends with a guy when you know he's abusing his girlfriend. For me it would be a no...

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