Girlguiding pushing stereotypes and reality-defying nonsense

[Fenlandia]

I couldn’t see a thread on this yet, but saw on Maya’s Twitter that Girlguiding have put out an article called “Rainbow Girl” about a child called Rainbow.

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

“Jane and her husband Mike started noticing that Rainbow identified more with female characters, toys and books when she was 18 months old. ‘Some people suggested we just say no, encourage her to identify with the male characters, but how can you explain that to a young child? To what end? No to playing with toys she loved or characters she loved to pretend to be? It felt cruel to say no, to the say the least.’”

[Or you could just let your kids play with whatever fires their imagination?]

The parents can’t deal with Rainbow’s desire to wear dresses or have long hair, until finally Rainbow comes out with this:

“One day she said to us in a quiet voice, “My real name is Rainbow”.
‘Until you’re in that position as a parent you cannot know how you will react. I could have laughed and said, “No it’s not.” I could have compartmentalised her life: “OK you can be Rainbow at home, but not at school." We didn’t take this route. Instead we asked, “Can you tell us a bit more about how you feel? There are some boys who like all the things that society thinks are for girls but know themselves to be boys, and there are some who feel like they are girls inside."

[I thought real trans wasn’t about adhering to stereotypes of what’s for boys or girls?]

Reading the whole thing, I’m aghast and would get banned if I said what I really thought of how this is being framed. This child just has a personality. They’re 7 years old and being imprinted with a fixed transgender identity by parents who seem confused, to be charitable. And then being put on a pedestal by an organisation set up solely to support women and girls.

Maya’s thread and the many comments on it are worth reading (mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1549864649004285959 ). I’ll pick out this one:

“I am completely agog and aghast at an organisation that has spent so long saying girls can do anything they want now saying that if boys like stereotypically feminine things they are the same as girls.”

How the hell have GG looked at this and gone yep this totally makes sense and is empowering for girls??

So my DD who has short hair enjoys action movies, rugby and has never enjoyed playing with dolls and chose her brothers WWF figures over Barbie is a boy in the eyes of GG?

GirlGuiding and Scouts are now - or should be - over. Irrelevant.

I’m a helper with Brownies and I think this is my peak teams moment with GG.I haven’t left before because we are so short of helpers and the girls get sommuvh out of it

what can I say to Brown Owl: That I simply don’t believe that a male child has a place in a female space? Would that be enough? What other aspects would you add?

The youngest GG division is 'Rainbows' so what sort of mixed message is that?

(My DDs did Rainbows and Brownies but got bored and left to joined cubs instead. Strangely I didn't question if they were boys despite having much more fun there)

This isn't even a feminist discussion anymore, I think this thread should be moved to Chat or AIBU for traffic.

Female books? Female toys?

This is how we work out if someone is male or female? Why don’t we go the whole hog and just ask the magic 8 ball?

Right, then. Fuck off, GG. You are done. No child of mine will attend anything run by you, ever again. You are damaging, gaslighting and lying to girls.

Time you could add that GG is choosing to base being a girl on stereotypes that have restricted women and girls in all avenues of life which goes against their ethos of empowering girls and teaching them they can do anything.
Along with the fact that humans cannot change sex and Rainbow remains a male child aka a boy.

This is like the puff pieces I was reading everywhere 5 years ago.

You can try saying it. It may empower those further up the tree. It is a top down ideology and those at the bottom don't have the ability to fight it, although we are passing them the weapons.

My local unit is having to close groups. My girls got a lot out of guiding, and so did I. It makes me very sad.

How the hell has this piece been OK'd as something they think fit and wise to publish? It must have been through many people in the organisation, all of whom thought the contents were 'fine'. 'Give me a child until he is 7', the old line ran, regarding social influencing. Back then, it was about getting them deeply embedded into a religion. Still is, I guess.

Oh FSS! How are we not past the absolute gender stereotypes bollocks! When my son was little he loved pink (still does), and rocked his my little pony dress. He was a boy who just liked what he liked, and I let him, without any judgement, as I'm raising both kids to know that there are no boys or girls colours/clothes/interests, we just like what we like. We're going bloody backwards and it's harmful and bloody ridiculous!

I did all levels of girl guiding when I was younger and even went back as a leader before I had my kids, signed my daughter up to the waiting lists on the day she was born! I've just cancelled her place because of this! No way would I ever send her on a sleep away knowing there could be boys in the same room! Or them using the same toilets!

GG is clearly all about maintaining sex stereotypes. They are contemptible. I'm sorry, I know there are lots of good women in there working really hard for children, but I can't countenance them looking after children anymore. That's a hard no.

Feel free to start a thread there. Start a timer for how long it lasts before being transferred here following complaints from other MNers or our external monitors.

Well I suppose it is a good AIBU thread as I would be interested in seeing the votes.

OP would you mind if I pinched your link and put a thread in AIBU?

I noticed a thread late last night, I think on chat or AIBU - have a look for that one maybe rather than moving this and link between the two?

Not at all, CrossStichQueen, I too am interested to see what a wider audience thinks. I feel like I'm being transported back to the 1950s, only with glitter sprinkles and unicorns.

Found it

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4593490-to-be-worried-about-rainbows

Ah sorry Errol I couldn't see anything hence starting one here. It's too important to just let this waft by

There is already a thread in AIBU about it.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4593490-to-be-worried-about-rainbows

I'm a Brownie group leader. The article is ridiculous. The parents/authors seem to think it's socially unacceptable for a boy to like dresses, but somehow more acceptable for him to "become" a girl so that he can wear dresses. Rainbow isn't even a girl's name, so I don't understand why the parents jumped from "my real name is rainbow" to "I'm a girl" apart from through their leading questions.

My 2 year old wants to be called "Captain" because she's a pirate. At what point do I start telling people she identifies as a male pirate and start calling her "him" 🙄 kids come out with all sorts of rubbish.

If this issue were to arise in my unit, I would consider leaving. But presently it is hypothetical, my girls love Brownies and I love doing it so it's not something I'm willing to give up out of principle. I do think it's different in Guides where pubescent boys could be involved.

No problem, it's often hard to spot things on AIBU and chat.

Aaargh! I thought the whole idea of childhood was to enjoy playing with many toys and trying out many roles, and toys being “for girls” or “for boys” went out with the ark. Seems crazy that we are being dragged back to that.

The sole reason my DD enjoys Brownies is because it’s a protected, female-only space. Boys can do Beavers and Cubs, which both accept both genders (and I presume everything in between).

Thanks Errol that thread makes for interesting reading. It seems that the majority feel GG has lost not only its ethos but the ability to safeguard children.

Post this regularly (so apologies for the repetition) but this is a psychologist's explanation about the harm done by socially transitioning a young child:

www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/