Girlguiding pushing stereotypes and reality-defying nonsense

[Fenlandia]

I couldn’t see a thread on this yet, but saw on Maya’s Twitter that Girlguiding have put out an article called “Rainbow Girl” about a child called Rainbow.

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

“Jane and her husband Mike started noticing that Rainbow identified more with female characters, toys and books when she was 18 months old. ‘Some people suggested we just say no, encourage her to identify with the male characters, but how can you explain that to a young child? To what end? No to playing with toys she loved or characters she loved to pretend to be? It felt cruel to say no, to the say the least.’”

[Or you could just let your kids play with whatever fires their imagination?]

The parents can’t deal with Rainbow’s desire to wear dresses or have long hair, until finally Rainbow comes out with this:

“One day she said to us in a quiet voice, “My real name is Rainbow”.
‘Until you’re in that position as a parent you cannot know how you will react. I could have laughed and said, “No it’s not.” I could have compartmentalised her life: “OK you can be Rainbow at home, but not at school." We didn’t take this route. Instead we asked, “Can you tell us a bit more about how you feel? There are some boys who like all the things that society thinks are for girls but know themselves to be boys, and there are some who feel like they are girls inside."

[I thought real trans wasn’t about adhering to stereotypes of what’s for boys or girls?]

Reading the whole thing, I’m aghast and would get banned if I said what I really thought of how this is being framed. This child just has a personality. They’re 7 years old and being imprinted with a fixed transgender identity by parents who seem confused, to be charitable. And then being put on a pedestal by an organisation set up solely to support women and girls.

Maya’s thread and the many comments on it are worth reading (mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1549864649004285959 ). I’ll pick out this one:

“I am completely agog and aghast at an organisation that has spent so long saying girls can do anything they want now saying that if boys like stereotypically feminine things they are the same as girls.”

I don't understand why allowing a 7 year old who believes they are transgender to take part in Rainbows, is a safeguarding issue though?

Inappropriate maybe as it's an organisation for girls, but it's not unsafe to have male children join in is it, otherwise all mixed-sex schools would also be a problem.

If it's about much older children sharing accomodation on camps etc, I can understand, although scouting allows mixed sex accomodation also and many campsites just have toilet cubicles, not separate for male and female.

Thank you for some perfectly-put phrases. I will sadly be emailing Brown Owl first as a courtesy and then whatever the hierarchy is starting with the District Commissioner.

I am really sad about this - girls having to suffer and think they are second best - the reason I help with Brownies was to be part of empowering them.

I don't understand why allowing a 7 year old who believes they are transgender to take part in Rainbows, is a safeguarding issue though?

Because GG are suspending reality by accepting a boy is now a girl. So obviously they also belive a man can become a woman and in doing so will allow males to share sleeping and changing facilities with girls.

I’m not at all surprised that GGs thinks being feminine= girl inside.

From my perspective GGs was very stereotypically feminine. It wasn’t about empowering girls or breaking down sexist barriers when I was a GG. Nope, it was literally preparation for motherhood. GGs is where I learned to sew, babysit, infant care, CPR, cook, bake, cross stitch, embroidering, various crafts like quilting and making Christmas ornaments (I suggested making bird houses but the leaders weren’t comfortable with girls using hammers and nails). We volunteered to do typically feminine things like visit the care homes and sing WWII songs and make cups of tea, or do a litter pick in a park.

I was so excited when my troop announced they had booked a week at GG summer camp on a lake. I thought wow I can learn to camp! It was a complete disappointment. While the Boy Scouts on the opposite side of the lake were learning to swim, sail, canoe and clearly had archery targets over there, we were getting up cleaning our cabins and the shower/toilet block, taking morning “nature walks” through the woods, followed by making jewelry, then lunch, then more nature walks or drawing/sketching, then cooking dinner on a fire, washing up and then singing vaguely religious and nationalistic songs and bed. It was dismal. We weren’t even allowed to put a toe in the lake much less swim or boat.

Adults (male or female) don't share sleeping or changing facilities with girls on residentials.

Scouting also allowed mixed sex residentials - girls and boys can share a room if risk assessment allowed it. Also a safeguarding concern?

No offence but how long ago was that?

Units vary depending on the leaders involved, let's not tar all girlguiding volunteers with the same brush.

You'll be aware of what happened to Helen Watts for challenging the policies?

Adults (male or female) don't share sleeping or changing facilities with girls on residentials.

Well according to the GG own policy they do.

They also state that men or boys who are volunteers must have separate sleeping and bathroom facilities but obviously that won't matter if the men and boys declare they are women and girls.

It is just so incredibly sad. The child is 7. Seven!!!!

Rather than just accepting their son likes dresses and dolls, the parents have transed him. And girl guides are celebrating this reifucation of dreadful stereotypes as if it’s progressive and good.

Let 7 year olds play with what they want. Wear what they want. Have their hair however they want. The genuinely responsible and progressive thing to do is to look at a little boy who doesn’t conform to stupid gender stereotypes and say: ‘yes son, people who think boys can’t like these things are silly’.

This stuff terrifies me. I was a gender nonconformity little girl. Short hair, unisex first name, liked boys clothes, playing football. Luckily I grew up in the 80s when I was just a ‘Tom boy’ and nothing more.

Whst I actually was, was aware that being a girl was shit. I was actually just a little feminist. Not anything else. At 7, 8, 9, etc I had no idea that’s what I was. All I had the knowledge or experience to do was to reject the category of ‘girl’ and all the shite that came with that. I wasn’t a boy (I wasn’t even going to grow up to be anything other than a straight woman); I was a little girl who could tell the stereotypes and expectations that came with ‘girl’ were not what I wanted.

I really fear for the little girls (and boys - because, let’s face it, what comes with ‘boy’ is also repressive in different ways) in 2022. They get to be immersed in a culture that wants to tell them their body is the problem, not the culture and it’s dangerous stereotypes. I got to grow up and learn so that I can recognise that the problem I had is a cultural problem. What I hated was gendered crap. Not my body or myself. I had ‘dysphoria’ but it was dissatisfaction with the cultural context I was growing up on and the ways it distorted and limited the possibilities open to me and everyone else. The problem really wasn’t internal to me!

Yeah I'm not sure why this is a feminist issue. I think it's pretty mainstream thinking that this sort of crap is sexist nonsense.

There is none of this crap in Scouting, and I've said it before but Scouting in general is much better at safeguarding girls than Guides. The girlie chats about being kind rather than being strong enough to have boundaries was one of the reasons my dd left.

It's mainstream now because of feminism!

You'll be aware of what happened to Helen Watts for challenging the policies?

And @KatieAlcock

Maybe it has changed as all the paperwork I've ever seen is that you have to have a separate room for adults to sleep in.

Ages ago. 1970/1980s.
Im not tarring them with the same brush, just sharing my lived experience. It’s worth pointing out that GG hasn’t always been about empowering girls or breaking down sexist stereotypes. They have a checkered history. And it will be women my age who experienced GGs similar to how I did that are now in charge of the organisation and so the after effects still linger in how it is run even today.

Girls and boys are allowed to share tents/room in scouts, so if that's the issue then it's still there.

I assume if a transgender child wanted to to join scouts they would be allowed, and would be called by their chosen name/pronouns. It's just not flagged as an issue because they aren't a single sex organisation.

It has not changed, it has always been the case that leaders can sleep in e.g. the church hall with the girls. GG say this is "uncommon" but that's totally not the point.
In addition leaders can help girls to change after e.g. swimming, do intimate care (Rainbow soils herself, for example) or first aid (take off trousers for girl who's cut herself), and share toilet facilities and showers.

They have a checkered history
I think most organisations which are 100+ years old do?

Hi. Yes I read the whole Helen Watts saga. Donated too. Appalling. That time I stayed for the girls. Now i believe I cannot

Bloody ridiculous - my dd identified and dressed as a cat for 2 years (she literally 'believed' she was a cat and I had to buy a number of the same head to toe cat outfits because they stank with being worn day and night) - I didn't send her to the cattery when we went on holidays, I never took her to the vet and I just let her get on with being a cat. She is now a teenager and no longer a cat.

However, my daughter was more of a cat than this boy is a girl, the poor kid just wanted to play with some toys, put a dress on and be called Rainbow. Normal parents would have said "Sounds great son, here's a nice dress and knock yourself out playing with the toys". And GG should have said - "Scouts is that way" and Scouts would have said "Hi Rainbow welcome to Scouts, no problem wearing your dress on days we don't have uniform and on other days feel free to take your pick of any of the Rainbows uniform options and please tie your hair up when we light fires".

Just checked the scouts policy on residentials Dock and it clearly states separate sleeping facilities for girls and boys unless there is a safety issue or it's not practical. They give an example of 1 girl in a group of 4 boys would be safer sleeping with them than on her own and that parents must be informed of this.

So it seems mixed sex sleeping arrangements are not the norm at all in scouts and separate sex facilities are.

18 months ffs - who the hell is even monitoring whether their 18 month old is playing in a gender conforming way?! My son goes between playing with dolls, cars, his kitchen (ooh is that manly like Gordon Ramsey or girly like Mary Berry?) and trying to be a cat (future furry obvs).

How how is this being held up as progressive and kind when it is blatant utter batshit crazy?!

I was in GG in the 90s. Learnt sailing, canoeing, archery. Went camping. Lit bonfires.

Think we may have had a session on flower arranging once but it certainly wasn't 'preparation for motherhood' or whatever. (Though caring for infants would have been a perfectly useful skill to have alongside abseiling.)

This is what I read (photo should be attached)
Adults sharing with children is not the norm in GG either and would also be risk assessed.

Yes, but people do forget you know. They say the past is a foreign country.