Single Sex Toilet issue creeping into everyday life?

[BoredofthisCrap7]

Just back from holiday in Cornwall.

Using the female toilets (public toilets) was very interesting.

Myself and two teenage daughters faced with fully grown man in the female toilets. These were public toilets, there was a female block, a male block and a disabled toilet. All open.
I was finished first and was outside waiting for my girls, when a strapping muscular 6 footer walked over to the male toilets, walked back out again, walked over to the ladies and checked the sign on the door (so knew it was female), then proceeded to go in anyway.
I followed him in to make sure my girls were okay. As they came out and stood at the sinks to wash their hands, he came out of the stall, over to the sink and stood there quite unperturbed washing his hands.

My daughters were mortified.
It did however give me a very good chance to explain the whole issue to them, including the fact that someone doesn't have to LOOK like a woman or make any changes at ALL to "identify" as a woman, which would (under self ID) give them the right to do this.

This man was in no way "trans" but it made me wonder if some men just feel now, that they can do whatever the hell they want in women's spaces and not have any deterrent or embarrassment about being there.
It was very intimidating - I did give him the evil eye but didn't feel like I could say anything to him, he was enormous.
There was no attendant to speak to.

Are women's spaces under such attack that even "normal" men think they are open to everyone?

On the flip side, I was recently at a concert where an older gentleman accidentally came in to the female toilets while I was at the sink (in fairness they were badly signposted). He was completely mortified, apologised profusely, and left immediately. THAT is how a decent man behaves when they find themselves in a woman's space.

If we're going to play older woman top trumps, I am hurtling towards old age and I would not challenge a man in an enclosed space with only children present. No I am not going to tell you why, work it out.

Women do not have to justify, argue, defend or explain (JADE) that the women's toilet are not for men's use.

The man in the OP shouldn't have been there, it really is that simple.

What if-ing is just a waste of everyone's time tbh.

Loving the brainstorm of caveats and excuses. Hey, what if he only had one leg, one eye, was 4 foot, looked sad, wore a pronoun badge, identified as a toilet attendant, was actually a spy working for the government on a top secret toilet based mission, fell from the sky, couldn't read the sign and had just saved a puppy from a building, what then? Hmmm. Hmm.

Probably not even waiting till later - they can't control themselves

This happened to me recently at waterloo station. A man in his 50s, absolutely steaming drunk. Staggered past the long line of women queuing up and tried to barge his way into the ladies.

the female attendant was brilliant, wouldn’t let him by, although he tried to push past her several times. It must have been really scary for her.

fuck knows what he was thinking. In hindsight I suspect he felt like getting off on invading womens space

I never use a toilet on a train, they’re filthy and I genuinely would drink less to ensure that I do have to.

It's increasingly likely in, what should be, single sex loos too now. I can't believe we've ended up here. And why are so many women making excuses for entitled men transgressing boundaries. I do not care about the hurty feels of entitled men, assuming the worst of them is entirely appropriate and necessary to maintain your own safety. Giving men the benefit of the doubt when confronted with one behaving in a way which makes women feel intimidated is incredibly naïve.

If men don't want me to think badly of them then they need to get the fuck out of women's spaces. If you're a man in a women's toilet you've already announced yourself as a disrespectful wanker.

The public Ladies I was in, where a man (dressed in men's clothes) was using the facilities for no apparent reason was in Edinburgh. It wouldn't surprise me if the men in question or the police in Edinburgh called any challenge to a man in the Ladies a hate crime and reported you.

It’s just sheer male entitlement then. Why should HE have to queue if the women’s has capacity?

And why are so many women making excuses for entitled men transgressing boundaries. I do not care about the hurty feels of entitled men, assuming the worst of them is entirely appropriate and necessary to maintain your own safety. Giving men the benefit of the doubt when confronted with one behaving in a way which makes women feel intimidated is incredibly naïve.

Centering men is a really difficult habit to break for many women as it's so ingrained by female socialisation - I know because I still struggle with it and even now don't always realise I'm doing it.

If men don't want me to think badly of them then they need to get the fuck out of women's spaces. If you're a man in a women's toilet you've already announced yourself as a disrespectful wanker.

Absolutely.

Interesting to see this thread.

I had a first encounter with a mixed sex loo yesterday in a cafe. There was one cubicle and then an area with sink/dryer. 6yo DD went first, and then usually I'd say just wash your hands and wait for me to use the loo. But I wasn't comfortable to leave her in a mixed sex area by herself. So, sent her back to the rest of our gang for me to have a pee. Its small, it doesn't matter in itself but point is I feel less safe. I'm privileged in many ways. If i was a single mum, had a disability then how would I manage that?

Our swimming pool has mixed sex toilets and changing. My little one was bursting and we had to go back out and wait outside in the changing area as there was a man in there weeing with the door wide open, it's horrible.

its not unusual to see some poor mum wrangling two small children whilst trying to have a pee - door ajar with one on her lap and the other standing just outside in her eye line.

sorry but men can just bugger off - they don’t need to use the ladies, they just want to (whatever their motives, from ‘validation’ to ‘it smells better/shorter queues’ to ‘I want to leer at women/scare them’)

Isn't it just

That too when OP has clearly said the men's loo's were fine.

When I was a teenager I finished my restaurant job at midnight and started for the bus stop. On my way a man stepped out of his car and called out to me. I didn't even think, I ran like hell. He yelled after me that he wasn't going to hurt me. Once safely on the bus, my female socialization kicked in. Maybe he just wanted directions? Maybe he didn't realize his pants were unzipped? Had I just been mean to the nice man? He said he wasn't going to hurt me.

I thought of this incident when I read the Gift of Fear years ago. I thought of it again when I discovered recently that the author has videos on YouTube. And then this thread made me think of it again. When a man breaks social norms like following a woman closely, standing right next to her in an elevator, offering to help a woman who doesn't need help, accosts a teenager with his pants undone or turns up in the ladies, that's a red flag. Those who are looking for excuses are a danger to everyone, especially themselves. I urge them to take a look at Gavin DeBecker's videos.

Maybe that guy was mortified when he realized he scared me. Maybe he stopped doing shit like that. But being rude to an innocent but bumbling man is not a terrible crime.

Victoria Smith nails it here.

Murica's post has reminded me of the time I was a teenager and stopped by a much older man who talked to me as if he knew me and my family. He asked me how I was getting on, and how my parents were. He didn't use my name or my parents' names and I didn't recognise him, but I answered his questions and pretended I knew him because I didn't want to be impolite. It was only when he asked me to go for a cup of tea with him and tried to take my arm that I ran away. Afterwards I felt bad - for being so rude.

I would like posters to stop telling women and girls to give men who have invaded their space the benefit of the doubt.

Sadly, I'm not and it's one of the reasons we are in this fucking mess all the women pandering, being kind, trying to come up with excuses like some of the posters on this thread. There's a special circle in hell awaiting them.

Talking about women with buggies leaving the cubicle door open has reminded me of DD always trying to unlock the door whenever she was in a cubicle with me. She was one of those toddlers who wanted to fiddle with everything. It was a minor thing back then but would be awful in mixed sex loos.

Floisme ,

Whoops,
Your post makes me think about what might have happened if he'd been zipped up. He was an otherwise normal looking man. I probably wouldn't have run immediately.

And I'd love to watch you ask a 6' man if he was in danger of soiling himself.

Meanwhile. back on planet earth...

I know Murica, if he hadn't tried to take my arm - which kind of broke the spell - I might well have gone with him because, although all my instincts were screaming that something was 'off', I couldn't think of a polite way of getting out of the situation.

I felt so bad afterwards for hurting his feelings and it was only years later that it occurred to me that a genuine family friend would have introduced himself - 'I'm ... I work with your dad' or whatever, and would never have asked me to go somewhere on my own with him, much less take my arm.

So I have no time for making excuses for men who break boundaries with women and girls and invade their spaces. Reassuringly, I find good men are even less forgiving than I am.

Dame Tanni Grey-thompson has spoken about single-sex facilities being especially important for disabled women. Not only are they more vulnerable to predation but sometimes inadequate facilities leave disabled women having to use cubicles with the door open.