Learning-disabled girls & women must accept men providing intimate care

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

This dreadful account from Transgender Trend is no doubt replicated all over the country as schools / social care / the NHS remove the rights to sex based care for these vulnerable young women, allowing men to provide intimate / personal care. Prioritising (yet again) the demands of this toxic lobby insisting that the safety, privacy and rights of women and girls no longer matter.

Warning - contains information about rape / HIV

www.transgendertrend.com/severely-learning-disabled-girl-sex-based-rights-under-threat/

These are some of the NSPCC's PANTS rules. Should I contact them on your behalf, Adelishious, to let them know that disabled children aren't entitled to believe their bodies belong to them?

Always Remember That Your Body Belongs To You

No Means No

Good for your mum. Unfortunately there will be many many elderly women who were brought up to “not make a fuss”.

Is it discrimination against men in care roles if they are not allowed to change a mute, learning disabled teenage girl's tampon?

Of course its discrimination, the same as it would be for a female nurse to put a catheter into a disabled boy admitted to hospital. There's no difference, youre just demonising male care workers.

It's not demonising male care workers, it is protecting the rights, safety and dignity of vulnerable girls who are unable to consent to such intimate care being provided by a man.

The priority is the person being cared for, not the hurt feelings of the man who wants to change a girl's tampon.

Equality provision is supposed to protect the vulnerable not give men equal access to the vulnerable.

Why is it so important to you that men should be allowed to change a disabled girl's tampon if he wants to?

Why should she have to pay more to ensure that a woman provides that care? Talk about making the already vulnerable even more vulnerable!

Is it discrimination against men in care roles if they are not allowed to change a mute, learning disabled teenage girl's tampon?

I seriously, seriously doubt a girl in that situation will be able to consent to using tampons and I’d question anyone who insisted a girl that couldn’t consent should be wearing tampons.

CatsOperatingInGangs* · Today 19:30

”Is it discrimination against men in care roles if they are not allowed to change a mute, learning disabled teenage girl's tampon?”

I seriously, seriously doubt a girl in that situation will be able to consent to using tampons and I’d question anyone who insisted a girl that couldn’t consent should be wearing tampons

You may be right, Cats, so I’ve rewritten the sentence:

“Is it discrimination against men in care roles if they are not allowed to change a mute. learning disabled teenage girl’s sanitary pad or nappy”

It's the sick insistence that both men, and trans-identifying men, should be allowed to do absolutely anything to women and girls, and if anyone disagrees, it's SCREAM TRANSPHOBIA!!11!!!!

How can people be so awful? Is it such a leap of imagination to consider how you would feel, incapacitated and vulnerable, perhaps alone at home? No decent male person would dream of imposing themselves on such a woman or girl. What sort of people does anyone think they are defending? Why not stand up for the trans people who would never do this, instead of defending the ones that would?

Pay a premium to attract the staff required. That's how the capitalist society we live in works, is it not?

I don't know if this has been said, but this should strike fear into the hearts of women everywhere. Anything could happen to any one of use and we could end up brain damaged or in a vegetative state. It's terrifying.

Yes, and there have been cases of comatose women becoming pregnant. Truly terrifying and could happen to us, our mums, our daughters.

Why not stand up for the trans people who would never do this, instead of defending the ones that would?

and therein lies the rub.

how do I know which are the trans people who would “never do this”, and which are the ones who would?

how do I tell which trans people have genuine dysphoria, and which have a sexual fetish?

the fact that trans people are so insistent on not listening to women, adamant that they should be allowed to do whatever they want, regardless of anyone elses wishes, makes me suspicious of their motives. It’s almost like grooming- we both know they’re a man, but I mustn’t tell anyone.

if a trans carer turned up and was open about themselves, actually dressed like a female carer, and asked for my consent, offering an alternative if I wanted, i’d be more likely to trust them.

a trans carer like pp said, who insisted I accept them as a woman no question, automatically creates a lack of trust. What if they do assault their patient, but again insist it’s ok, that’s what changing a pad should be like.. if I’ve already agreed to believe they’re a woman, why would I not agree to believe anything else they tell me?

Once again, it's about the safeguarding rules we put in place to maximise safety for all.

Once again, males have the highest sexual abuse offending rates.

This offending rate doesn't change with transition. Very few TW have surgery (quite rightly imo.)

Once again any abuser will do what ever they can to access the most vulnerable in order to offend.

If anything, a trans rights activist should be applauding safeguarding rules based on sex as to try to push this particular boundary REALLY raises the red flags.

Just to be clear, I agree with you. I was saying to the TRAs, they are doing trans people a disservice by making it sound as if no trans person would have any scruples about providing intimate care to the opposite sex. My distinction is not between "genuine" and "fake" but between considerate and selfish. Like you say, someone who honestly explains their situation and is willing to graciously accept the patient's choice, is a different proposition from someone shouting "I am a woman, you bigot! Now take your clothes off!".

These TRAs are doing our work for us in proclaiming to the world that the sorts of things that would "surely never happen" are in fact the kind of things that this movement aggressively advocates for.

I think you've misunderstood. I can't see anywhere where someone has suggested that someone's body didn't belong to them, or that no, didn't mean no. You've wandered way off topic here.

There are also those that seem to misunderstand 'rights', as they stand. No one, male or female, disabled or otherwise currently has the 'right' to be given intimate care by a member of the same sex. Where its reasonably available it will be given.
It would be interesting to know how many that stand in favor of this proposal have donated THEIR OWN money towards this provision for others or do they expect all the other people currently in care who don't mind who cares for them & are grateful to the carers that are there to help, to foot to bill, that's expensive enough as it is!! The reason there isn't always a single sex carer available to fit their wants is often a matter of cost, a cost that some think can be paid for out of thin air, that is assuming they aren't willing to put their hands in their pockets.

78% of the health and care workforce are women www.nhsconfed.org/publications/may-2021-update-covid-19-and-female-health-and-care-workforce-survey
There should be no problem whatsoever in providing single-sex care for disabled girls' intimate care NEEDS - not wants! And we do put our hands in our pockets for it already, it's called tax.

Well in that case unless there's a giant conspiracy underway by the ever dominant patriarchy of sex-offending males to overrun the 78% of women that would also agree sometimes it isn't possible then I'm afraid it is that difficult on current budgets and there are far more pressing matters to spend any surplus budgets on.

That's not to say for a second that someone sexual assaults are not horrendous and serious, before someone claims I'm minimising harmful behaviour, I'm not, but it does occur and there are things in place to prevent it.

I actually am part of the 78% (more like 85% on the front line) and I completely disagree, as does every care worker I know. With the massive ratio of women to men working it is always possible to provide same-sex care to female clients given they are only roughly half the client base. The job is caring for needs and there is nothing more important than ensuring safety, privacy and dignity. It's the whole point. Nor is there anything more pressing to spend budgets on. I really hope anyone with attitudes like yours doesn't work anywhere near the care sector.

before someone claims I'm minimising harmful behaviour, I'm not,

of course you are. You’ve done nothing but minimise sexual assaults on the most vulnerable women in society ever since you came on this thread.

First you claim that protecting women from sexual assault is less important than some warped version of “equality” for male caters, now you’re claiming that it costs too much (how much does it cost? You certainly don’t know, you don’t know anything at all, but in your malevolent mind any amount is apparently too much.)

it’s the twisting justifications for your warped stance that are the most disturbing thing. It increasingly seems that your agenda is not pro male “equality” and it’s certainty not about cutting care costs when you know nothing about the care system.

I’m putting this in a separate comment in case it’s deleted but I don’t think it should be because it’s a reasonable conclusion to draw about that commenter’s motivations based on his comments.
He’s mustering up any argument he can find, however crappy and incoherent it is, to use against people who think disabled women should be protected from sexual assault.

He’s not about equality or cutting costs, he’s pro sexual assault

My very elderly grandmother was in hospital and needed assistance to get to the toilet and and little help whilst in there. She was in hospital for 5 days and on 5 occasions they sent a male nurse to help her with the toilet. Fortunately my gm is mentally strong and was able to speak up for herself to request a female, but I wonder how many vulnerable women put up and shut up?

It should be obvious to Adelicious why vulnerable girls and women are more in need of same sex care than vulnerable boys and men.

one is the statistics on who commits sex crimes.

two is the reality of who can become pregnant if they are raped.

When Adelicious compares intimate care to male teachers, it shows that Adelicious really has no clue whatsoever.

There are safety checks on teachers, and on carers.
same sex intimate care is an ADDITIONAL level of safeguarding, which is very, very important.

my child has many lovely carers, women and men. When she is older it will be very important for her safety that I can choose the sex of her carers. And in actual fact, that I can know the sex of her carers and not just their gender.

I have accepted this makes me a «transphobe».

Budgets dont work like that in any care home or school or respite care etc.
The budget for wages is just that. The budget for grass cutting is exactly what it says. If there is a surplus it cannot simply be spent elsewhere. So if theres no grass at that care home, they cannot (as in illegal in state owned) use that money elsewhere. Private owned will be different, but we are not talking about private here I dont think.

You have minimised all the way through this thread. The best thing set up to minimise harm is single sex carers, not single gender. One of these is not like the other. I would prefer to die than be put in the situation of a man doing intimate tasks for me.

'Things in place to prevent sexual assault' starts with same sex care.

thank you, that is very well observed, @TastefulRainbowUnicorn

”women can have bodily autonomy as long as male people don’t mind and it doesn’t cost them money, inconvenience or stop them from doing whatever they want with those women”

Ewwwww.

This is nothing to do with bodily autonomy (whatever that's meant to mean) or the disingenuous claims that I am in any way pro sexual assault. That is in itself abusive to make such unfounded and unevidenced claims. People with disabilities are more vulnerable obviously, but there is no line you can reasonably draw. What counts as a disability? These days people will self identify as disabled merely on the first signs of an ache or a pain, so you cannot just say 'disabled' like everyone knows what that even means. Barring one sex from certain professional duties is a slippery slope & the last one I ever expected to see so called feminists taking up. Should women be barred from caring for the elderly in this attack on gender. The visious thieves that systematically steal and defraud infirm and elderly patients in care homes are almost all, and almost always women! When you want to go into the rabbit hole let's go down it.