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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Friends producer apologising for trans storyline from 20 years ago.

89 replies

Metabigot · 10/07/2022 17:14

An example of how the narrative is being controlled? Sorry for the pink news link but this has been reported widely

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/07/08/friends-trans-marta-kauffman-chandler-parent-misgender/

So people have to atone for any wrong think even from 20 years ago now? Even before the trans issue was even on the mainstream radar?

Do we do this with other marginalised groups who have been represented poorly on TV shows or films in the psst? Black characters? Gay characters? Apologise two decades later for doing something which wasn't even a thing then ? ( in this case misgendering).

OP posts:
Hearach15 · 19/07/2022 16:16

Metabigot · 10/07/2022 17:14

An example of how the narrative is being controlled? Sorry for the pink news link but this has been reported widely

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/07/08/friends-trans-marta-kauffman-chandler-parent-misgender/

So people have to atone for any wrong think even from 20 years ago now? Even before the trans issue was even on the mainstream radar?

Do we do this with other marginalised groups who have been represented poorly on TV shows or films in the psst? Black characters? Gay characters? Apologise two decades later for doing something which wasn't even a thing then ? ( in this case misgendering).

"Apologise two decades later for doing something which wasn't even a thing then ? ( in this case misgendering)."

This is a fascinating insight into what it's like to be gender critical - trans people very much existed in the 90s, you just didn't notice them!

Clovefeld · 19/07/2022 16:18

The first time I watched it, it made me furious that Fat Monica was inexplicably more stupid than Thin Monica.

So were Rachel, Ross and Chandler in the flashbacks, wasn't this because they were all much younger and immature?

Doubleraspberry · 19/07/2022 16:24

Clovefeld · 19/07/2022 16:18

The first time I watched it, it made me furious that Fat Monica was inexplicably more stupid than Thin Monica.

So were Rachel, Ross and Chandler in the flashbacks, wasn't this because they were all much younger and immature?

No, the episode where Fat Monica doesn’t lose the weight. She remains immensely naive. As if fat people don’t get to have rounded characters, however old they get. Sex with immature Chandler goes some way to sorting her out but of course because she’s fat she’s been a virgin all her life.

There are of course also constant fat jokes against Monica through the series.

RenegadeMatron · 19/07/2022 17:50

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 11/07/2022 13:15

Now what I think would be worth apologising for is the amount the series normalises porn.
Friends has a new generation of followers. It's really big with preteens and early teens, so I would really want to get out the message that actually porn(and strippers, lapdancers etc) are not beingn, seeing as we can now see where that casual attitude led us.
It's largely sexist and homophobic as well, putting trans issues at the bottom of the apology pile.

Absolutely - couldn’t agree more. The whole series is littered with porn.

We’re watching it with teen and tween DS and DD, and luckily I know it very well, and so can FF through the many episodes. But it’s more the off the cuff references, and also about strippers, hookers and whores that you can’t skim over as easily.

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 19/07/2022 18:05

As I understand it, the whole alternate universe in which fat adult Monica existed was meant to show that the paths they had taken had led to self growth and this without those paths they were all a bit shallow and magnified 2d versions of their characters.

Joey was an arse because he'd made it big too soon. He had to learn humility over the course of the two episodes whereas he learns that gradually and is therefore more grounded over the series.

Phoebe had completely lost touch with who she was. She had lost her caring spiritual side and so all that was left was her bitchiness.

Rachel was shallow, spoiled and had no drive. No career, shed reverted to an airhead.

Ross was whiny and entitled. About the same for the series lol.

Chandler had built a wall of humour around himself and so hadn't developed elsewhere. He had no confidence and was a loser.

Monica doesn't stand out in this. She was naive and fixated on food because she didn't have much else going on in her life. I don't see that she was particularly picked on anymore than the others.

It's meant to illustrate they were all where they were meant to be. Hence chandler and Monica end up together. Ross and Rachel leave their partners. Phoebe loses her job. Joey gets away most lightly I guess.

Doubleraspberry · 19/07/2022 18:17

Sorry, Friends made jokes about Fat Monica for the whole run. The other friends in that episode were exaggerated versions of their worst selves but Monica was like a child. Friends is a fat shaming programme. Unpicking a single episode to look at it from a different angle, as you are totally entitled to do, and we can agree to disagree on how we all read it, doesn’t change that. She is a figure of fun for her weight.

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 19/07/2022 18:28

Running jokes:
Rachel's nose
Rachel's shallowness
Joey's stupidness
Pheobes vegetarianism and hypocritical moral code
Chandlers unattractiveness
Is chandler gay
Ross hair
Ross Geekiness
Monica analness
Monica fatness

I'm not saying there's not fat shaming. I'm saying she's not the only character to be shamed, even for problematic thing, see above homophobia.

And I would do an episode by episode analysis but I don't want to turn this into Reddit.

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 19/07/2022 18:33

And all these running jokes have a good whiff of misogyny/toxic masculinity running through them so Monica being shamed for not living up to a physical idea (like Rachel and her nose) is not out of place.

beastlyslumber · 19/07/2022 18:48

If you don't think it's funny, don't watch it. Problem solved.

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 19/07/2022 18:59

I can appreciate the funny bits whilst recognising the problematic bits.
If I restricted myself to comedy without any misogyny it'd be slim pickings.

Doubleraspberry · 19/07/2022 19:02

Yes, it’s shit in many ways. Fat shaming isn’t the only bit of casual cruelty by any means. It’s offensive in quite a few ways. Not sure why you want to not see the fat shaming though?

Doubleraspberry · 19/07/2022 19:08

The misogyny falls under the same point I was trying to make. Women and fat people are still very acceptable targets for jokes. We aren’t getting our apologies any time soon.

moofolk · 21/07/2022 17:23

Uh-oh.

Penis News have misgendered Friends.

Turner herself has also explained that she wouldn’t have played her Friends character if she was asked now, saying she doesn’t think she sitcom has “aged well."

XenaKeyboardWarriorPrincess · 21/07/2022 17:45

We seem to be agreeing then. I'm saying fat shaming is a problem in it, as are the other running jokes which are largely misogynistic and homophobic in nature.

Incidentally just seen the episode with Monica's cury hair and braids. Quite racist overtones.

But yes, agree women will get their apology last. When hell freezes over.

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