Friends producer apologising for trans storyline from 20 years ago.

[Metabigot]

An example of how the narrative is being controlled? Sorry for the pink news link but this has been reported widely

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/07/08/friends-trans-marta-kauffman-chandler-parent-misgender/

So people have to atone for any wrong think even from 20 years ago now? Even before the trans issue was even on the mainstream radar?

Do we do this with other marginalised groups who have been represented poorly on TV shows or films in the psst? Black characters? Gay characters? Apologise two decades later for doing something which wasn't even a thing then ? ( in this case misgendering).

She says something about how she used the words "Chandler's father" - well, what else was he? His mother? A distant relation?

Slightly off topic but I cannot imagine going to a school reunion and telling someone I'd not seen in years that they'd called me a pig when we were 5.

ugh I knew they'd come for Friends. Yikes. It was all done in good humour and I still laugh at Rachel trying to find Chandler's Dad and meeting a woman called Amanda and she's like oh I get it! A Man Duh!
This apologising and backtracking on things and always when its just TV shows sucks the enjoyment out of everything and also I remember there being plenty of diverse characters too. I really truly hate the state of the world today

I think she has every right to apologise if she feels it was in bad taste. I don't hear her saying it was a terrible travesty to the trans community, just in bad taste.

she is says had it be these days, there would be someone real to play that role.

IMO most trans people will see it for what it is and won't give 2 hoots.

You do know Kathy Turner is real?

Actors are paid to play different characters it's what they do for a living. I don't see why a trans actor has to play a trans character. Or a gay actor play a gay character. Or should any other aspect of the actor have to match the identity of the character with the obvious exception of physical characteristics where appearance is relevant.

It's an insult to the acting profession otherwise.

I'm not on here much mostly a lurker but @Metabigot I was just gonna say something like that I mean as long as the story being told by the actor is done with respect I don't see why it has to be like this I mean its the entire point of acting lol are people gonna have need to have fought in a war to play soldiers next? All of this is just nonsense

Well they wouldn't have been able to make lord of the rings for starters

I remember it as being pretty progressive for back then. There were jokes, yes, but the point was that Monica helped chandler get past his issues with it and reconnect with his father. And yes, his bloody father, he was a gay man working in a drag show.

And the relationship between Carol and Susan, yes there were jokes, but they were also portrayed as a happy, strong couple, and seeing them get married was lovely.

Yes. I think she’s doing a great disservice to her creation and the whole team that worked on it by wanging on about all of its faults by today’s standards. I’ve noticed this a lot from her (but maybe that’s the only thing she says that’s ever reported on)

Friends featured a lesbian wedding in one of its earliest seasons (mid 1990s) way before gay marriage was even being debated in the UK (Australia only permitted gay marriage in 2017!). The whole storyline with Chandlers father was about how uncomfortable he had been with unconventional outlandish parents and reconciling that with an adult perspective. The father character was witty and fabulous and loving and was ultimately accepted by the group without changing anything about themselves

I think it normalised a lot and was way ahead of its time.

The whole storyline with Chandlers father was about how uncomfortable he had been with unconventional outlandish parents and reconciling that with an adult perspective

Exactly. I think it was well written.
He wasn't trans so why the fuck would they need a trans actor to play him?

Chandler’s dad was a complete narc. Turning up to Chandler’s swim meets dressed as Carmen Miranda handing out fruit? Slept with one of his teachers? Never once thought how that might impact a teenager. Ran off with the bus boy when Chandler was 9. Not to mention the trauma of witnessing orgies at the age of just 7. Chandler was right to be pissed at him for years, he never once thought about anyone other than himself and certainly not how his actions impacted a little kid.

You never see Charles out of drag though. You only ever see Helena, even at Ross's wedding.
Whereas if Charles was a drag act only (Helena at Viva Las Gaygas) you would see them as Charles irl (like you do RuPaul or the two Lawrences on celeb gogglebox).

I suppose the writers hadn't expected they'd need to turn the outrageous offscreen character (function: to show and explain Chandler's repression) into an actual on-screen character. So, when they were faced with that challenge, they just went hell-for-leather and came up with the comic surprise of having Kathleen Turner play the role.

I'm not sure Marta Kauffman really knows what she's apologising for. She can only have done the cause a favour - certainly when I watched it all those years ago, it never occurred to me that fabulous Charles "Helena Handbasket" Bing might not be typical of "men who lived as women".

Chandler's wedding, not Ross's.
Morgan Fairchild makes a joke about them having too much penis for the dress.
Cross-dresser rather than drag queen perhaps, if doing it off stage too.
But as you say, trans umbrella has taken over all those now, including transvestite <laments Eddie Izzard's change in approach away from: They're not women's clothes. They're my clothes. I bought them.>

Yeah, I mean on Friends, it was virtually presented as a progression from gay to drag cabaret to literally played by a female actress as if to suggest a heck of a lot of surgery. So the impression was - ah, so it's flamboyant camp gay men taking it to the next level. Never entered my head that 20 years later we'd be dealing with bearded male lesbians and dour balaclava-clad thugs.

It's stupid, but actually I think more and more often there are demands to apologize for story lines pr language that were seen as fine 20 years ago but are not today, for any identity groups.

Part of the joke is that the audience knows KT is in fact a woman and also that particular woman.

But I think comedy is just impossible under the new regime. When I was a kid I loved the Jeffersons which was seen as barrier breaking in its day, I don't think you could even show it in reruns now.

Kathleen got the role after David Crane (co-creator) who is gay, saw her in Tallulah (she played Tallulah Bankhead, in costumes designed by Bob Mackie).
Crane has said there are moments on Friends he looks at, where he goes Yeah, alright, really? We went with that? But he does not seem to be so self-flagellating as Marta, or feeling the need to apologise/make amends ££

But that's the point + misgendering and deadnaming were,'t wrong in the past. I suspect that 20 years ago few people had ever heard of these terms so they couldn't have been wrong to not use them. So why are celebrities like Kauffman and Turner making grovelling apologies to faceless anonymous people who apparently are convulsing in agony over fabricated offences,?
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@BeenThereBoughtTheTeeShirt

Not really, he’s just always in drag. The character had a clear intent that was set when he was introduced. He was never ‘a woman’.

Chandler's character development is all about coming to terms with his less than adequate childhood and realising he doesn't have to repeat the mistakes they made.
Both parents were awful, borderline neglectful abusive.
The dad cheated and broke up the family when he was still a child. When Joey's dad cheats as an adult it's a storyline because Joey has to reconcile his image of his dad with the reality of a flawed human being. Chandler's is worse because it happens to him as a child and subsequently exposes him to very adult themes and ideas. Walking in on orgies? Sleeping with his teachers? Funny if happening to 20s Chandler, abusive for child Chandler. In the UK witnessing inappropriate sexual content is a safeguarding issue, and that's for things like watching porn. Orgies are another level of irresponsible parenting.
Chandler's mother isn't great as she doesn't shield him from the adult details of the breakup, instead bringing them up. I have a bit more sympathy for her though as you only see that once and I imagine she's feeling angry and betrayed at being lied to. Chandler's bile towards his mother then continues into adulthood, as he is embarrassed about her sexual freedom(misogynistic overtones) and her erotic writing. This anger is misplaced because as an adult he should be angry at his exposure to such themes as a child and not as an adult. I'm not surprised his mother goes down the overly sexualised route after being betrayed and a more nuanced approach would her explains how that hurt caused her insecurity etc.
But they just went for the simplistic tell his mother off route.

Chandler's character arc is moving past the pain and building a healthy, monogamous, supportive relationship in spite of the terrible model his parents gave him. That he succeeds is supposed to be a credit to him and Monica and not to point out how wonderfully progressive he has become.
Chandler isn't angry his dad was gay. He was angry his parents divorce was damaging and he was exposed to adult sexual themes in his childhood.
One of the big problems with it is I think Monica pushes his boundaries by making him make up and invite his father to the wedding. It's not a healthy way to deal with trauma and it's a shame it's framed as a victory for Monica as I think Chandler is perfectly within his rights to deal with it in his own time.

So according to these new rules, trans widows children are bigoted every time they say "Dad". Imagine having that pressure as a child, and imagine how different it would make you feel to your peers?

It's ridiculous. The character provided the (fictional) sperm so they are the father of Chandler.

I thought if anything they may reflect on why they didn't use a Transwoman actress for the part (in the same way other film makers have said they should have used a deaf/blind/mute etc actor for relevant roles).

I thought if anything they may reflect on why they didn't use a Transwoman actress for the part (in the same way other film makers have said they should have used a deaf/blind/mute etc actor for relevant roles).
Doesn't help the team propaganda wheel to see the physical difference between transwomen and women. The only time I've seen it recently the tw hid leaning behind a counter the whole time, clearly trying to take up less space. Didn't work. Instantly clocked it. DH didn't. Which suggest evolutionary men aren't as attuned to sex difference as women. Survival thing I guess, pretty vital skill for women.
Women playing tw like Hayley Cropper etc have been an absolute boon to the idea that there's no difference.