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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Penny Mordant's bid for leadership is surely over

283 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 10/07/2022 17:00

Her obfuscation over her views on the trans issue in a long and rather disingenuous twitter thread earlier has brought a "senior Whitehall official," incensed by the perceived duplicity, out to say this:

"A senior Whitehall official gets in touch about Mordaunt and the maternity bill. “She fought AGAINST the change to ‘women’. The way she’s trying to rewrite history to suit her is despicable. While she’s supposedly campaigning on character and values. can’t believe the hypocrisy”

twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1546158477738971138

We all could see when it was happening it was only the steadfastness of the Lords that got the words woman and mother back in to the legislation.

On top of the that she used footage of the late Jo Cox rather cynically earlier too in a bout of self-promotion.

She has no judgement at all and her relationship with the truth seems rather strained. As the first comment in the thread says this is surely her Andrea Leadsom moment.

Penny Mordaunt should step-down before she does any more damage.

OP posts:
JustWaking · 17/07/2022 10:53

It's so great that Mordaunt's flexible relationship with the truth is coming out so prominently in the news. Surely she can't be selected now. After Boris, the biggest requirement for the new leader is integrity.

I'm not convinced about Sunak's economic policy though, particularly holding off on tax cuts due to inflation.

There are 2 different types of inflation: supply-driven (cost of production going up) and demand-driven (people feeing rich, and buying more).

Our current inflation is supply-driven (the war in Ukraine reducing availability of various foods, sanctions in Russia reducing oil and gas, Brexit putting barriers in place for imports as well as exports).

Reducing tax makes the other type of inflation (demand-driven) worse because people feel richer and buy more unnecessary stuff. But it doesn't affect supply-driven inflation: it's just making it possible for people to keep buying goods they absolutely need (food and fuel).

Increasing wages could cause an inflation spiral, because once one sector has a big increase then all the others will have to follow, and the extra wage cost further increases the cost of production.

Reducing tax would mean less money coming into the coffers, which is a problem - since we need to pay back the huge cost of covid - but that's nothing to do with supply-driven inflation so shouldn't be artificially linked to it.

I can't work out whether Sunak doesn't really understand economics, or whether he's just over-simplifying the message because he doesn't think voters do (which is quite patronising). I think he might be trying a bit of a sleight-of-hand: blaming inflation for not cutting taxes, rather than all the money spent on covid policies..

I like Kemi's focus on supporting companies: creating more value is the only way out of this situation. But she wants to reduce tax by finding inefficiencies in the public sector, which I think is a non-starter. Everyone has been trying to do that already for years and schools and hospitals in particular already be cut to the bone, and only just keeping the lights on. I'm also very against her suggestion of 're-negotiating' net-zero by 2050. Climate change is urgent, and can no longer be pushed back.

Tom Tugendhat seems all talk and no ideas. He's too like Starmer.

So I think Truss is probably the best bet. She's experienced, not afraid to stand up to foreign powers, intends to cut taxes, plans to fund that by borrowing to cover the covid costs over a longer period of time, committed to net-zero by 2050, and didn't hesitate to stand up for women when that was a very unpopular move. It does worry me that she says covid is a 1 in 100 year event - I think that's optimistic, especially with climate change likely to bring many more equally expensive 1 in 100 year events over the next few years. But borrowing is probably still the right thing to do.

MarshaBradyo · 17/07/2022 10:53

bellinisurge · 17/07/2022 10:21

Dickhead journo on BBC News just now saying the sex vs gender question is just a trivial carping but of nonsense.
Mate, you have no fucking idea

BBC showing their allegiance

He sounds an idiot

ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 17/07/2022 10:59

The problem, in part, is that the press and MSM decided a long time ago that they were going to see TWAW. They call men 'she' at the man's request, have lots of articles from the TRA point of view, don't report about what is happening in prisons, hospital wards and schools. Theyre invested in this mindset, so as the leadership campaign is acted out in the media, they are going to carry on enforcing this view on the public.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 17/07/2022 11:11

nauticant · 17/07/2022 09:39

Mourdant's choices were:

True believer: stick with what she'd said knowing it would go down badly with much of the membership who can't be shamed with "well, you're a bigot then".

Trumpian/Johnsonian: what happened then has shifted to an alternate reality and in this reality it never actually happened.

Apostate: I held those views, but since then I've reflected more, see that the situation is more complex, and so have changed my views to recognise conflicts in rights.

Self-interest ruled out the first and fear of the consequences of apostasy ruled out the last, even though it would be the truthful and most principled. Effectively this was a test of character and she failed it. Bodes badly for how she'd be as a PM.

Exactly.

I'm just hoping there are now enough voices being heard saying "This is not about gay rights! This is not about being kind! This is about the biggest-ever demolition of women's rights and child safeguarding."

If that message can be repeated and repeated, there's a chance of the mainstream media actually doing their job and finding out the facts. And then countering the lies with facts.

endofthelinefinally · 17/07/2022 11:53

There was a politician on LBC this morning earnestly defending Penny Mordaunt by explaining that what she actually meant was that ONLY men who have a medical diagnosis of GD and have had hormone treatment AND sex change SURGERY were the transwomen she was talking about when she said TWAW. I don't know who he was as I missed the beginning.
I have no doubt he has no idea what the backlash will be...

Conflictedunicorn · 17/07/2022 12:02

@endofthelinefinally i’ll get popcorn….

SallyLockheart · 17/07/2022 12:27

endofthelinefinally · 17/07/2022 11:53

There was a politician on LBC this morning earnestly defending Penny Mordaunt by explaining that what she actually meant was that ONLY men who have a medical diagnosis of GD and have had hormone treatment AND sex change SURGERY were the transwomen she was talking about when she said TWAW. I don't know who he was as I missed the beginning.
I have no doubt he has no idea what the backlash will be...

That is why this topic needs to be brought up time and time again. Do these politicians - was it a man? - have any idea. Are they deluded or just ignorant? There are many many issues that needs to be returned to single sex but sport and toilets/changing rooms are definitely points that are now been highlighted to the general public.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2022 13:01

Has this been posted yet? It's a jaw dropping article by Caroline Fiske for Conservatives for Women that outlines in detail how Mordaunt personally oversaw the dismantling of women's rights. There's massive detail including how the government's LGBT plan was used to promote gender identity in schools, how the SRE curriculum was infested with porn at the behest of dodgy groups, how the CPS toxic hate crime guidelines for schools (the ones that had to be withdrawn rather than subject them to any scrutiny) were promoted. All funded by the government:

www.conservativesforwomen.org/penny-mordaunt-helped-to-push-gender-ideology-out-across-every-institution-in-the-uk

mrshoho · 17/07/2022 13:22

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2022 13:01

Has this been posted yet? It's a jaw dropping article by Caroline Fiske for Conservatives for Women that outlines in detail how Mordaunt personally oversaw the dismantling of women's rights. There's massive detail including how the government's LGBT plan was used to promote gender identity in schools, how the SRE curriculum was infested with porn at the behest of dodgy groups, how the CPS toxic hate crime guidelines for schools (the ones that had to be withdrawn rather than subject them to any scrutiny) were promoted. All funded by the government:

www.conservativesforwomen.org/penny-mordaunt-helped-to-push-gender-ideology-out-across-every-institution-in-the-uk

Thank you for this. It's all there how PM was a fundamental participant in the introduction of this gender ideology. It happened under her instruction ffs.

SallyLockheart · 17/07/2022 13:27

That’s appalling

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2022 13:28

I've read the Denton's report and have often casually wondered how on earth education was so speedily captured, assuming that it was just the civil service to blame. Never realising that it was the millions of £££ funding the LGBT plan as a trojan horse to gaslight a generation of children into believing that sex isn't real.

mrshoho · 17/07/2022 13:38

So is she to be trusted as a future leader of the Conservatives? No. I would have more respect for her if she had held her hands up and said look we've all been hoodwinked but we're putting things right. The way I see it now is she's going to lie and rewrite history to get a foot in and then what? We have no idea what she really believes in.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/07/2022 14:16

mrshoho · 17/07/2022 13:38

So is she to be trusted as a future leader of the Conservatives? No. I would have more respect for her if she had held her hands up and said look we've all been hoodwinked but we're putting things right. The way I see it now is she's going to lie and rewrite history to get a foot in and then what? We have no idea what she really believes in.

I don't really give a toss about the leadership elections as the tories are "not my tribe". BUT - after living under a deceitful liar like Johnson, the idea that there's another potential PM who openly lies and dissembles in the face of clear evidence rather than telling the truth is dismaying.
And yes mrshoho, most of us have had to change our opinions from TWAW once the grim reality for child safeguarding and women's rights were revealed. She should be able to do the same.

BootsAndRoots · 17/07/2022 14:45

These lies are a lot more serious than whether someone had a piece of birthcake at their office desk.

This is lying about the types of policies you wanted to bring in, and about satisfying different groups of people at different times.

She wanted Self-ID to be popular with a certain crowd, she has now thrown TRAs under the bus (not actual transsexual people who don't need self-ID) to appeal to a different group of voters.

Apollo442 · 17/07/2022 16:08

We have a chance to put gender ideology to bed. Drive it out of schools, hospitals and the civil service. If Mordant became PM we know where her sympathies lie, the whole battle will escalate as she will undoubtedly appoint fellow zealots to the EHRC and Equalities. I don't know what Mordant thinks the end game will be but women aren't going away and aren't going to back down and their numbers are growing.

GreenLunchBox · 17/07/2022 17:01

mrshoho · 17/07/2022 13:38

So is she to be trusted as a future leader of the Conservatives? No. I would have more respect for her if she had held her hands up and said look we've all been hoodwinked but we're putting things right. The way I see it now is she's going to lie and rewrite history to get a foot in and then what? We have no idea what she really believes in.

So the same as Bozo then? Funny how people were all right with it until it starts to affect them 🙄

achillestoes · 17/07/2022 17:25

Why does Mordaunt’s team think the scrutiny of her party and the electorate about her stated positions is some sort of personal affront? David Davis is going at it now, saying “woke” is a slur against PM. In what way? People describe themselves as woke all the time. Likewise she was moaning about the scrutiny on Sunday Morning, saying the questions being directed her way are “toxic”. Not really, Penny, people just want to know what you’d do in office. Not unreasonable.

Thingybob · 17/07/2022 17:28

endofthelinefinally · 17/07/2022 11:53

There was a politician on LBC this morning earnestly defending Penny Mordaunt by explaining that what she actually meant was that ONLY men who have a medical diagnosis of GD and have had hormone treatment AND sex change SURGERY were the transwomen she was talking about when she said TWAW. I don't know who he was as I missed the beginning.
I have no doubt he has no idea what the backlash will be...

I think it was George Freeman MP for Mid Norfolk.

He said the context to PM saying that TWAW was that she was heading a government consultation

He seems totally ignorant of the issues and thinks the consultation was about "trans rights"

He believes that PM was showing compassion to a small minority of people, those who have been on a horrific journey, have a GD diagnosis and have gone on to have sex change surgery. According to him the law says those people are legally women. No mention was made of a GRA!

He was on Tom Swarbrick this morning at about 1hr 7 mins in

MarshaBradyo · 17/07/2022 17:29

It’s a weird take

Don’t ask me what I’ll do

Well it does concern us hence why we vote

mrshoho · 17/07/2022 17:57

GreenLunchBox · 17/07/2022 17:01

So the same as Bozo then? Funny how people were all right with it until it starts to affect them 🙄

Yes just like Johnson minus the blundering school boy act. I wasn't a fan of his either.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 17/07/2022 18:16

www.spectator.co.uk/article/penny-drops-kemi-soars-in-tory-activist-poll

Mordaunt now third behind Badenoch and Truss.

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 17/07/2022 18:17

The latest on Penny’s dishonesty on women’s rights, new leaked recording: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4591863-more-lies-from-penny-mordaunt-leaked-recording

TurnstilesOfMyMind · 17/07/2022 18:33

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 17/07/2022 18:17

The latest on Penny’s dishonesty on women’s rights, new leaked recording: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4591863-more-lies-from-penny-mordaunt-leaked-recording

Thank you for spotting this. It confirms what we already knew, really - shenanigans behind closed doors.

Quia · 18/07/2022 08:20

The Conservatives would have to be insane to elect another leader who regards the truth as totally disposable. It would be giving the next election to Labour on a plate. But maybe they have been so blindsided by Boris over this that they no longer believe that voters have the right to even moderately honest politicians.

darcyesque · 18/07/2022 08:28

I don't think the grassroots membership would. But the MPs might be stupider than we think