Anyone Else Watch Sky News Just Now? Tom Tugendhat and Grant Shapps Interviewed

[rogdmum]

Tom Tugendhat basically stuttered through his start saying all the be kind words, followed by a bit of support for single sex spaces but qualified with more be kind words.

Grant Shapps was horrific. Made it clear he has no interest in the issue, doesn’t understand why this American issue has somehow ended up over here and wants nothing to do with it. Utterly dismissive.

I have NO problem with anyone wanting to centre the economy in their bid, but Shapps was awful.Simply awful.

No, I missed this. Thanks. Shapps is definitely a slippery fish, and Tugendhat (I believe) supports GRA reform, although I can’t remember where I saw that he did.

‘"I just don't think we need to get caught up in some US-style debate and aggressive war on these issues. It's just not necessary."

Let me fix that for you, Grant: it’s just not necessary for you.

Here are some women for whom it has been very necessary: Keira Bell, Maya Forstater, Macy Grey, Jess de Wahls, Kathleen Stock, Selina Todd.

If you don’t respect women, I imagine things look one way to you. If you do, they look very different.

It occurred to me recently that the men will only pay attention when the detransitioned males start speaking up. Ritchie is going for the jugular. So many women have done so too but good ole sexism prevails.

Well Shapps very identity is kinda fluid.

Indeed ICake

Shapps is awful full stop.

I thought that Tom T was pretty good actually. Clearly knows the issues and spoke about biology and sport etc. while being respectful.
Shapps was absolutely abysmal and said it wasn't his thing and if you don't like it don't vote for him!

Right, have watched Shapps and he describes himself as “libertarian socially” and says he’ll always be in favour of supporting people who want to change their gender, and wants to hear no more about it. We know where he is in this debate. He’s not dismissing the issue, he’s disagreeing with those (like me) who believe liberalism is about being free to do what does not hurt other people.

Grant Shapps was on Broadcasting House on Radio 4 this morning.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00193r2 from 12 minutes in.

Mainly a load of stuff about tax and the economy and the behaviour of Boris Johnson, then some quickfire questions at the end. “Is a transwoman a woman?” Shapps: you can’t deny the biological position but we must have love and respect and care for those who do want to change their gender but a Shapps premiership would focus on the bread and butter things that matter to everyday people and making sure that everyone feels part of British society no matter how they feel about their gender or sexuality. (I paraphrase a little.)

He really doesn’t want to talk about it, does he? So he gave a politician's fudge. But it’s really interesting that the question is being asked at all.

(On a side note: “a Shapps premiership" 😆)

Everyone who says its not an issue, or we can have both men with female birth certificates and female only spaces, need to be challenged about how exactly they intend to keep everyone happy, safe and with dignity.

Just saying is really okay, wouldn't wash with any other policy, so why is this one different.

(On a side note: “a Shapps premiership" 😆)

I'm embarrassed for him.

That statement alone should have him removed from parliament, let alone be allowed to run for prime minister.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5pYnjcKhPhs

Tugendhat answers the gender question from 15.44 if anyone is interested.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=JigUYU3Kolw

Shapps 13.50

I think either of these two would be a nightmare for women.

Sajid is on message but is a poor speaker and would let Labour in next time with all the problems that would cause.

Rishi is ok. Liz Truss is much better but I really really hope Kemi Badenoch gets it. She is the only one who gets it, gets all of it, and could take the battle to Labour.

Tugendhat paused before “single sex space” and said “safe space for women” (in relation to prisons and rape shelters). He then said we should recognise biology in sport.

He does not support single sex spaces. He is evasive.

I also support dignity for everyone and that means women.

With Tugendghat's interview, I appreciate he was shoehorning "a clean start" in at every possible opportunity, but it came across very badly in a scenario where women have been fighting this crap for years (and started off trying to be incredibly diplomatic) for a man then to waltz in and say, "No, no, you've been doing it all wrong. I'm here to make it all more respectful."

Now Gary Lineker is retweeting Shapps saying “Cut out the divisive nonsense”. Maya Forstater is telling him the facts.

I could not be more sick of people telling women to stop being “divisive”. Don’t side with people call me a womb-carrier and putting men with functioning penises in women’s prisons, or I will be as divisive as I like.

I don’t think Tom T supports GRA reform does he? Pretty sure he gets it, will be interesting to see what his political/public stand will be.

Shapps was awful.

It's interesting. A few years ago we would have fallen over ourselves with joy at the Tugendhat interview - 'a woman is an adult human female' he said. Back then, billboards were being pulled down for having those words on them. How far we have come that a Tory leadership candidate says this on Sky?

But ... sorry, it's no longer enough, Tom. Not by are long way. We know all the weasly, slippery phrases and we don't trust you on this. The first tell is saying 'it's time to move on'. But the thing is, Tom, we are not moving on. Not until it is all crystal clear. And there are millions of us.

The Overton Window is moving so fast and you are not keeping up. You need to be unequivocal. Transwomen are men. Because they are adult human males.

Well, Grant Shapps did identify as Michael Green for a good while so he knows all about identity fluidity

I'm a bit at him dismissing women in this way, but I'm not too alarmed by what he is saying if I'm absolutely honest. I don't think a govt under him would introduce any GRA reform crap, I think that is basically what he is saying here, it just wouldn't be on the table at all.

Tugendhat has RTd JKR a couple of times.

Gary Lineker is a dismissive twat RTing a patronising no-hoper.

Yes agree Tom T has to make his position as clear as Rishi’s (and Boris’s). Even Penny M has been clearer in her recent tweets.

As PP points out re: JKR retweets there are good reasons to believe he gets it. But he needs to be clear.

Come on Tom T!
We think you get it but more needed!

For the record, Grant Shapps on BBC Radio 4 "Broadcasting House" on 10 July 2022:
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00193r2
at 16 mins 50 secs

Transcript

Interviewer: "Is a transwoman a woman?"

Shapps: "Well, look, I think this is a debate, an argument, that's been going on for a long time. Biologically, I don't think you can deny the biological position. I think we have to have sort of love and respect and care for people who do want to change their gender - that's a separate matter. But a Shapps premiership would not be obsessed with these issues. I would be dealing with the bread and butter things, which matter to everyday people and making sure that anybody and everyone feels part of British society, no matter how they feel about their gender or sexuality."

Yep, certainly he appeared to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard when it came to anything to do with his transport brief over the last two or three years.