LibDems and the LBGAlliance

[ChristinaXYZ]

twitter.com/mikedixn/status/1545468040711651329

Unbelievable: the LGBAlliance tweet that they're going to be at all the party conferences "we’ll be running a stand and a fringe event at the Lib Dems' annual bash in Brighton in September" and whoops the LibDems CEO tweets there has been an administrative error and there is no stand after all for the LGBA, "This is not correct. To confirm: you do not have a stand or a fringe at Lib Dem Conference. I have checked with the team and there has been an administrative error. Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience." A very half-heart apology there.

The LibDems have obviously been fielding complaints from teenagers again.

Why would anyone who is gay, or any woman, attend the LibDem conference with the intolerant attitudes they have?

Where are these lesbian clubs and bars you post so often about, @suggestionsplease1 ? Many of us would like to visit these legendary places.

You also seem so convinced that none of us know any actual trans people. And this: “how many are actually lesbians and how many are claiming to be and misappropriating causes and claims” — this is completely risible, given that you’ve frequently argued elsewhere that being a lesbian is an identity that one can and should be able just to self-declare into.

Only: we know full well that what you mean is men can claim to be lesbians and that’s fine; but any women disagreeing with me are not actually lesbians.

The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. How dare you accuse women of “misappropriating causes and claims” when your entire movement is based around doing precisely that? At a time when women in the US are not even allowed to name their own loss of abortion rights without the ACLU (heaven help us) or any old trans activist coming along “online”, and scolding women that they must put “trans, nonbinary and genderqueer” people first?

On the one hand you accuse posters here of ignoring the experience of trans people; then with the other you’re invalidating the experience of any lesbian woman who doesn’t confirm to your opinion. It’s deep hypocrisy, and we can all see it. It’s not just hypocritical, but also dishonest. And it gives your argument no credit if we can see the dishonesty running all throughout.

I find that men who lay claim to women's attention, women's time, women's spaces, women's labour; with no discussion, no reciprocation - are generally creeps. Men who care nothing for women.

Dittto women who are their handmaidens. I feel sorry for the,, and compassion What on earth do they think they are getting from this clearly abusive relationship?

What has what happened in the 19th Century got to do with this bill?

I'm just trying to find out what LGB Alliance have done that is so wrong, as I'm pretty damn sure they are not advocating for exorcisms for anyone.

LaughingPriest

I've posted multiple times what conversion therapy is. If this conversation is too intellectually challenging for you I'm afraid I cannot help you.

Actual lol - you're just like my brother when he was copying stuff off the internet for his A-level coursework but couldn't work out how to "put it in his own words" to avoid plagiarism. Except I even gave you a yes/no question about what you are claiming to make it easy for you - and you couldn't even attempt that one!

It's ok. We can all see you're flailing about. It's the dishonesty that provides the cherry on the top of the intellectually lacking cake.

There is an incredibly strange obsession on Mumsnet with soundbites like "people with penises demanding or thinking they have a right to sex with lesbians" .

There's just nothing like that happening, every decent human being knows what consent is and transwomen are exactly the same as anyone else in that respect. There's nothing that differentiates them from any other population when it comes to understanding consent.

That's not to say that there aren't trans lesbians in good, happy relationships with other lesbians. There are, I count several amongst my friends. And really it couldn't be further from my mind, or anyone else that knows them minds, to obsess and fixate over what that should mean for identity or to try to dictate to them at that point how they should label themselves.

It really is pretty irrelevant. What matters is 2 consenting adults have found a good partner in each other and are enjoying a happy relationship together.

There's just nothing like that happening,

Except for times when it does actually happen! Which is what many of those threads you decry discuss! Morgan Page was doing this 10 years ago, ffs!

What matters is 2 consenting adults have found a good partner in each other and are enjoying a happy relationship together.

Unless that relationship is mis described and used to persuade others that a man and a woman can be in a lesbian relationship. Blurring the boundaries of your own sexual preferences is fine. But using it to enforce a changed understanding of the terminology people use for themselves is not!

There's just nothing like that happening, every decent human being knows what consent is and transwomen are exactly the same as anyone else in that respect

Why did Stonewall hire the male who used to run 'cotton ceiling' workshops which were about strategising about gaining access through lesbians knickers? Males get REWARDED for this behaviour.

Why are so many young lesbians coerced into sex with males so as not to upset them and risk the wrath of their rage?

Look at what happens when a woman says the mere word 'woman'...the male rage is off the scale. How fucking dare you suggest they are all lying.

I responded to a post requesting evidence for a previous statement saying that the vast majority of lesbians are trans inclusive, and I responded to the best of my knowledge and experience on this point. Are you saying people shouldn't try to answer questions that are posted here?

I responded to a post requesting evidence for a previous statement saying that the vast majority of lesbians are trans inclusive, and I responded to the best of my knowledge and experience on this point. Are you saying people shouldn't try to answer questions that are posted here?

You gave your opinion, your own experience, quite determinedly... like a fact! You went to some lengths to do that. Which it isn't.

When you answer questions honestly that doesn't tend to happen.

I described the reality of the world that I and other lesbians I know occupy.

The world where we know each other and other gay/ bisexual/ trans people personally and recognise that we are not actually the living embodiments of the latest negative stereotypes and sound bites that happen to be doing the rounds online.

Look at what happens when a woman says the mere word 'woman'...the male rage is off the scale. How fucking dare you suggest they are all lying.

I agree. Completely at odds with the reality of what we see that women experience in social media, political parties, workplaces etc. TRAs call lesbianism a "genital preference". Stonewall won't stand up for them, its CEO called them sexual racists. We see the lies and half truths of this movement's supporters.

@theclangersarecoming On the subject of lesbian bars I'm reminded of a column in the Guardian by Rebecca Solnit. She attended the last night of the last lesbian club in San Francisco - gay capital of the universe.

In passing , she gave an approving nod to the many male born 'lesbians' at the event.

Our Becky is never going to win a Join the Dots Competition.

Please consider joining us. You can still be a supporter if you aren't a current party member

liberalvoiceforwomen.org/get-involved

Not rtft so apologies if this has already been posted but LGB Alliance have basically burst that 'it was just an administrative error' balloon

@suggestionsplease1

I described the reality of the world that I and other lesbians I know occupy.

Can you define what it is you mean by 'lesbian'?

Because as we established earlier, the definition of 'lesbian' often includes 'male who likes women' aka straight men.

Oh yes please @suggestionsplease1 confirm whether you mean males who are claiming to br
lrsbisns or actual lesbians. Ur female homosexuals. At the moment you are sounding very homophobic to be honest. Claiming a lesbian is not sane sex attracted , but could be in a heterosexual sexual relationship if she found the right partner is what the right wing bigots do. It’s called conversion therapy and you suggesting it is disgusting.

The Lib Dems killed their party stone dead when they jumped into bed with the Tories shame because if they hadn't done that they may have actually have stood a chance of winning an election where as the Tories have had no competition for years.

Not rtft so apologies if this has already been posted but LGB Alliance have basically burst that 'it was just an administrative error' balloon

How astonishing.

It'll have to come, as they are neither Liberal, nor Democratic any more.

True but that was because of the tuition fee rise which went against their manifesto commitment. They got nothing out of propping up the Conservative Government really, Clegg was a terrible negotiator, except it is interesting that even some of the Tories got into the 'gender woo'...did this actually start under Cameron?
Was it all cross-party/Stonewall stuff and therefore slipped under the radar?

I was told that lots of older grassroots libs left the party around the time of the coalition and shortly afterwards, and the gaps were filled by people with other agendas that weren't anything to do with traditional lib values. They sort of took over a shell of an empty party?

I don't know if that's true. But judging by their online presence, none seem very liberal, in the traditional sense.

The "administrative error" excuse and apology were so feeble, I doubt they even expected to be believed. They got heaps of praise on twitter from anti+LGBA twits thanking them for their "error".

I find the fixation and obsession with definitions to be divisive, distracting and focussed on othering and alienating people. I feel that the energies devoted to it are counter-productive and will not achieve anything of real benefit to any of the players involved.

We know now that several countries have introduced more relaxed forms of gender self identification, and that these have been in place for many years and there has been no demonstration of detriment to women in these countries.

We even have a more controlled example of how self ID / nondiscrimination laws operate in practice, when UCLA examined how different locales in Massachusetts fared in terms of police reports of assault and privacy violations depending on the locale's approach to transgender inclusive public accomodation laws. They found no link between trans inclusive policies and bathroom safety.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ma-public-accommodations/

www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-bathroom-safety-study-finds-n911106

I am on board with people being able to self-identify, and if the identity of lesbian feels like the best fit to that individual at that point in time in their life who am I to say otherwise. I am not the creator and author of definitions, none of us are, and no one person or entity presides over their use.

Language lives and terms and definitions expand, there is nothing new here, that is simply how language operates, as history has shown us for millennia.

I have been part of lesbian social groups for a couple of decades; there has been no massive influx of trans lesbians, if anything more recently it is going the other way; we are seeing a lot more engagement with younger non trans lesbians currently. I have never known any safety concerns over trans lesbians present, but we have certainly needed to speak to some non trans lesbians about their behaviour. And that is what we should be focusing on, any concerns with an individual's behaviour, not our own ideas about the legitimacy of someone else's ID. The fear mongering and moral panic is misplaced.

That’s a lot of words for no I can’t define lesbian in a way that meets my point and is not homophobic. So if we’re not to get hung up on definitions, you’ll have no problem with referring to transwomen as males who believe they present as women.

We know now that several countries have introduced more relaxed forms of gender self identification, and that these have been in place for many years and there has been no demonstration of detriment to women in these countries.

like Iran for example? They’re very big on trans rights….