Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

[ImpossibleDrum]

Julie Bindel

You may hate me for this (well, some of you at least, but I cannot BELIEVE that many of you on here are deciding who is good or bad for PM because of the trans issue ALONE. I mean, I KNOW it is an urgent issue, but so are a million other things right now!!

Sharron Davies

I agree with your too Julie. There’s a bigger picture right now with people potentially unable to feed or keep their kids warm this winter. We can keep bringing the sunlight to other issues.

I agree with them, I centre my politics around environment & climate issues, which often puts me in conflicting situations 😀

Can I please point out Labour are not going to do anything about poverty. Current fuel/cost of living support is £1200 for people on UC and other benefits, it may end up being more. Labour said they would use a windfall tax which would have worked out around £90. None of the last few Labour election manifestos have increased welfare payments, for example, and Rachel Reeves has repeatedly said she would cut benefits and crack down on claimants. Austerity is over, it was David Cameron's and George Osborne's political ideology and dumped while Theresa May was PM. I really think we need to end the comforting little fairy tale that Labour would be nicer to us poor people because the evidence is to the contrary.

And the current PM is being ousted for being a liar. So how can anyone vote for Starmer who objected to BJ because of his lies. Starmer also lied in his campaigner to get Corbyn elected - he knew Corbyn would be a disaster and that the antisemiticism was worsening under him but nope Starmer kept on going.

I think Starmer is a far worse liar than Boris.

I agree with those who say this issue is foundational. It is NOT a trans issue. It is the recognising of women's language and right to be seen as a sex class. JB knows that. I am irritated by this comment from her. Loads of working class people - women and men vote conservative for many reasons. I am from a poor background of people who voted tory. I never have but I will vote in the interests of women. No-one should be hungry and without resources, that should concern us all. But this purity spiralling in left/right politics really pisses me off. If this period in history is teaching us anything, it is to discuss issues and not ideologies. BJ for all his faults promised an uplevelling which is why many poorer people voted him in.

To be fair to Cameron and Osbourne - neither of whom I particularly like - their policy was to balance the books not austerity itself. The austerity was a symptom of the fact the country was running too far and too fast into debt as the out-going Labour minister at the treasury helpfully pointed out in that famous note he left behind him.

The Tories aren't mean they're just more likely to make the hard choices. The reason the Conservative Party is so angry at Boris, apart from the lying, is that he would not make hard choices. Too desperate to be liked.

Yep, I agree with them. I've supported a loved one through the current PIP process (and yes, I know PIP as a concept was introduced by Labour but the current process is as mandated by the Tories) and I don't know how anyone who has been through it and seen how disabled people are treated like the shit on someone's shoe could vote for a party who thinks that's not just acceptable, but a desirable state of affairs.

Unfortunately I can't vote for any of the so-called 'progressive left' parties either since the ability to define 'woman' in policy-making is also pretty fucking fundamental, especially in areas such as healthcare and justice. So I'm politically homeless and will be reduced to spoiling my ballot paper.

How would you know OP is a woman?
And I'm just wondering if their motivation is to sow discord amongst GC feminists rather than to actually discuss this, given they haven't been back to the thread

I notice the OP hasn't come back.

There are a lot of threads like this. Wind 'em up and let 'em go.

Fortunately it doesn't really work like that, because the women here are generally far too moderate and switched on. Lots of nuanced posts, analysis and calm reflection.

And, for the record OP, even if I might disagree with one or two well known women campaigning for women's rights I'll still be bunging them as much money as I can, for when their feminism needs it.

Julie Bindel having a political opinion doesn't stop Nottingham County Council being discriminatory twats.

I really think we need to end the comforting little fairy tale that Labour would be nicer to us poor people because the evidence is to the contrary.

I've seen a lot of this thinking - saying they'll obviously do things they've never even hinted they would and who ever gets in will be facing some serious problems and events are always potentially there to trip them all up.

Women's rights has huge impact on many areas - I don't think either left or right in UK politics has dealt well this the current issues around them - conservatives have just been less bad lately.

But presumably that's a man not a woman? I don't understand why you knowing a nice man has anything to do with women's rights?

I do sort of agree with JB. It's incredibly important and I think it's a good gauge of honesty - as to how many people will say TWAW but not be able to say what they even think they mean by that. But sadly I assume most of what is said by these parties are in some way dishonest. If one party was clear on their position on this they would go up in my estimation, but it would be weighted against other factors.

It's not the fact that a potential PM says TWAW. It's the lack of criticality, the casual disregard for women, the wild-eyed passion, the refusal to listen, to engage in discussion and, quite simply, to provide reasons which seem to go with the position. These are not qualities I want to see in the person running the country.

There are many other reasons not to support someone, but a refusal to acknowledge material reality is a clincher.

Yes, basically this.

The NHS is one of the most important things to me, so although women's issues aren't forefront they are a big part in how the NHS is run, and funding sterilisation of gay children also is a worry to me.

I agree with what you say @Datun . Still that tweet feels to me like one more person telling women to stfu. The fact that it comes from JB has really upset me. She is unlikely to vote for whoever is the next tory leader. Not sure why she had to have a pop at women using the opportunity to raise the issue. Why am I posting here? Simply, I am fed up of being told to be silent by those who are not hearing the women speak on this - especially if they claim to be supportive.

she would do best to have a real conversation with KJK

@LangClegsInSpace

Of course it's the leadership of the Tory party that's at stake at the moment. However if Labour felt themselves united and in a good place, they could call a vote of no confidence and go for a GE.

I still dislike the fact that it took Labour lords to ensure GC women had a stall albeit on the periphery when the party itself denied them that at the forthcoming party conference. That they have allowed GC women to be pilloried from within the party without defending them.

The Greens have an issue, too, though it looks as if there's a reverse there. LibDems ditto.

No party has produced anything solid in terms of policy for the future. A huge number of us are in "safe" seats but then look at the Red Wall.

The most we can do at the moment is write letters outlining our concerns on any issue to our MPs, councillors and parties.

Moot point for me.

Am not a conservative party member so I won't have a vote on the next PM.

None of the parties represent my views on women in any case. So if I only voted on this one issue, I would have nobody to vote for.

Conservatives know what a woman is. Because how can you discriminate against a class if you can't define what that class is?

The rest are TWAW.

I know. Personally, it's not whether I agree with her or not, I know she has often said things that I wouldn't agree with.

But I'll give her all the credit in the world for what she has devoted her life to, and that is not diminished by me disagreeing with her over other things.

What is pissing me off is the blatant attempt to divide women on the trans issue , on the basis of other things they disagree about. I'm not falling for it.

Julie Bindel and Sharron Davies agree 100% with the consensus here about the trans issue. And are fighting alongside us. Julie has taken on Nottingham County Council, and Sharron has made spectacular progress with sport.

And all of us are fighting for women's rights.

Whilst I'm busy trying to persuade people about how important the trans issue is, by God, I'm grateful that there's someone else out there helping women exit prostitution add highlight male violence.

We can't all do all of it. We have to prioritise. And we all have different politics.

I'm not going to get upset with someone whose priorities are different to mine, when all of our priorities are about women.

I don't think so, his statement a few months back was very carefully worded indeed.

I know I'm quoting myself, but I want to add that I feel far more manipulated by people who are trying to divide us, than the words of someone else whose priority is women rights, but just disagrees with how to go about it.

Hold on a minute, you're all arguing about a premise, but the premise hasnt been proven.

Why says we are centering our politics around the trans issue? Who is saying we're unable to care a lot about multiple things at once?

I'm not remotely concerned about trans issues, or worried about trans people who just want to live their lives.

Self ID and the dogmatic approach that TWAW allows men into female spaces

Men who can be men one day and women the next. Who can change in woman's changing rooms with their beards and their erect working penis and we just have to accept it. Men that can decide they are women when the realise they are going to prison but then go back to living as a man once they are released.
Rape support groups that are all mixed sex because having a female only group is 'transphobic'

It isn't a trans issue, it is a woman's issue. I am not a Terf, I am a Merf. Male exclusionary radical feminist

I'm generally supportive of Bindel but looking at her responses to people on that twitter thread. Kisses for Suzanne Moore and Sharron Davies, polite replies of disagreement to Malcolm Clarke and a couple of other men, dismissive, rude replies to a few women. Ignores the rest of the women disagreeing with her. Not impressed at all. It reminds me of a TRA thread. God save us from purity spirals.

Yes. I said exactly this earlier on about a recent article she wrote. It felt quite weird actually.

just wanted to reply to @Datun - am keeping eye on thread, but working same time, so prob about to go quiet for a bit. I too am grateful for Julie and all she does. Really, really grateful and supportive and awe inspired really. And simultaneously I feel told off by her today and it smarts - she did write that tweet!. Still, I am old enough and ugly enough to cope with a bit of a smart. But I never likely to shut up - not really my style 😁 I agree, many would love women to start in-fighting, I'm not about to start doing that.

I agree

^^
This.
Well said.