Please can someone explain like I’m 5

[Justdontgetit000]

I’ve name changed for this.

I feel very weird about the trans issues lately, something feels “off” but I can’t put it into words. I’m pretty left wing, very pro-choice, I consider myself a feminist.

I “hang around” online with others who have similar beliefs to me mostly, they are the ones I find myself agreeing with and wanting to defend. So I feel like I know where I am with most topics. Then on a forum I lurk on, someone got banned for saying they don’t want to be referred to as body parts. The person who started the thread (who is also a mod) said that when discussing Roe v Wade we can’t just say “women” we also need to say AFAB or “womb/uterus owners”. If we don’t our posts will be removed. I don’t post on there anyway so doesn’t affect me, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

I can’t articulate why, I feel like I’m in a place mentally where I SHOULD be fine with this because of all my other beliefs. Does that make sense? Yet I felt angry reading this. I don’t want to be offending people simply for using the word “women”. Then I feel guilty and like I’m transphobic?

I want to say I have no issues with any trans people, in that I’d have nothing but love and support for a friend for example who was trans, and would never ever be rude to or abusive towards trans people. Yet I get the feeling my mixed emotions towards all this would get me called a TERF. I know what that stands for but don’t really understand the term, I know a little of JK Rowling and her situation and I read that she got some awful messages after her controversial tweets, and that scares me. So I’d only talk about this anonymously.

Can anyone help me figure out, in a very basic way, what is happening in my mind and perhaps point me in a direction where I can learn more? I’ve tried to look for threads like FAQs about this issue but can’t find any.

Thanks for reading!

I agree, in VERY specific situations it matters, however I don't see this as one of them situations where it matters.

Ah, Adelishious, how do you propose that women tell the difference between the men that are indeed "out to get" women, and those that aren't?

What is "this" situation that you are referring to?

That is the age old question is it not? But I know one thing, it's not by assuming ALL men are out to get you. That will get you nowhere.

Ah, so it's just like we assume that not all teachers are paedophiles, so we don't ask them all to have a DBS check? No need for any safeguarding, because not all teachers pose a risk to students.

So no need for female only spaces, because not all men pose a risk to women. We can't possibly put women's safety (and dignity, privacy) above the risk of possibly offending men who aren't a risk to women.

No, Ive never felt that we need 'female only' spaces, and I don't think theres any evidence these are beneficial or required in the first place.

Let me ask you, do you think that white people should have 'white only spaces' just because black people are convicted of a higher majority of crimes per percentage??

Unfortunately, I’ve been sexually assaulted so many times from a very young age - only by biological men - that I do kind of have to have that mindset, just in terms of self protection and being aware of certain situations.

So for example if I had to get changed and undressed and had a choice to go to a communal womens room or a communal mens room, I’d feel safer in the women one.

That’s not because I go around expecting to be assaulted constantly, but because the risk is a lot higher in the hypothetical mens changing room. So by choosing the womens one it reduces the risk.

If bio men are now also being allowed to go into that womens room, it feel unsafe because the chance of being assaulted will automatically go up and it’s out of my control.

Hope that makes sense. I also want to say that I love the men in my life, I care about the health and well being of men and I do recognise that it’s a tiny proportion of all men who are dangerous to women.

Sorry, I thought you were a man because that's just what a man would put. So, a man's rights apologist.

Do you know what a risk assessment is, or is that just 'faff'?

So you don't think there should be female only prisons? Female only hospital wards? Female only rape crisis centres? Female only sport? Female only changing rooms? The ability to ask for a female HCP for intimate examinations? Female only areas in breast cancer screening centres where women are waiting in hospital gowns to be screened?

Ok then.

No, Ive never felt that we need 'female only' spaces, and I don't think theres any evidence these are beneficial or required in the

Sexual assaults in changing rooms....
90% of all these attacks occur in mixed sex changing areas. Good enough evidence?

Let me ask you, do you think that white people should have 'white only spaces' just because black people are convicted of a higher majority of crimes per percentage??

You are vile. Are you genuinely claiming that 'being black' is a risk marker equivalent to 'being male' for sexual crime? You know that makes you a huge racist, right?

Males commit 98-99% of sexual assaults. You are saying this is equivalent to 'black people'?

I'm not reporting this racism right now because I think it's important to let it stand but you won't get far on MN if you keep posting about black people like that. I'll give you the opportunity to retract it.

(I'm not even going to comment on the total fucking meaningless gibberish that is "convicted of a higher majority of crimes per percentage")

Jesus, this old trope again. No, women wanting single sex spaces is not like race segregation FFS.

How nice for you that just because you don't feel the need for single sex spaces, you would like to declare that on behalf of all women.

Very well said 👏

Very much enjoying those coming here with the scoldy waggy finger of shame & thinking that their “oooooh só you think racial segregation is fine then? Eh eh?” is sone kind of gotcha like we haven’t heard & demolished it a million times before

What I find quite draining is the strange rabbit hole arguments, such as trans women can use women’s facilities because you cannot tell if they are male or female by appearance; or that trans women can go in women’s sports because of XXY chromosome or that children need trans language because…

They continually put feminists or those campaigning to keep women’s spaces, children’s safeguarding and sports on the back foot in spiralling circles.

It really reminds me of being in an emotionally abusive relationship with my Ex - where things like just being able to decide which pictures to put up became big inflamed arguments where I felt confused thinking, but it’s just a picture! Why has this escalated, why is this person saying I am attacking their true nature or whatever?!

I’ve heard many arguments now in the media and they have the same kind of feel. Lots of strange pseudoscience arguments which confuse and de-rail. And then if they don’t work the emotional big guns come out - which is feel like emotional blackmail, that trans people are the most bullied or oppressed and will suffer massively if they are asked for example which sex they are on a equal opportunities form. Yet I as a woman am now faced with equal opportunities forms that don’t even ask if I am a woman, they ask about my preferred gender or how I ‘identify’. It feels very oppressive, very strange and very bullying.

Oh, sorry. I will happily pass this one to you because I also quite fancied 'InsertedSideways'.

Good fucking lord.

'penis-phobia'. Do you mean PTSD from the aftermath of sexual assault?

How crass and revoltingly insensitive.

Lol if we don't like something online just name the thing you're trying to defend and add phobic to the end of it. 😂 no one cares anymore. We are not intimated into feeling bad anymore. That's been used on us too many times. Boundaries exist for a reason. If you're comfortable with getting undressed in front of men that is on you. But don't push that into all the countless other women who aren't comfortable with it. Maybe invite them to get undressed in your living room or something. I'm sure they won't mind.

No, it's rightfully yours - have both!

That is the most common sense phrase I have seen for a while - boundaries exist for a reason

This is so true.

I believe that anyone or group wanting to break down a boundary needs to prove that there is a very good reason and there is no harm from this. Unfortunately the trans agenda shows that most of our institutions will change boundaries without any discussion at all.

Otherwise known as Chesterton's fence — don't take down a fence until you know why it's there.

(Chesterton's fence as a philosophical concept is about more than just removing boundaries, but fits beautifully even if taken very narrowly.)

Gosh @Adelishious, that is absolutely hilarious on the penis phobia front.

Can you explain why prominent TRA activists are subject to, at most, vociferous argument on Twitter by women who value single sex spaces. Whereas JK Rowling receives death threats and rape threats and people actually planning crimes against her. Could it be, perchance, that those who are male (ie trans women and their male allies), are actually more prone to violence. Actual violence. Not "literal violence" like misgendering.

No, I don't care whether a woman or a trans woman is "feminine". Whether a woman wears a dress or jogging bottoms is pretty bloody irrelevant to me. I care whether they are FEMALE. Perhaps you could explain why it is the case (even the BBC admits it) that a significant percentage of trans women in prison have committed sexual crimes and why trans women seem to offend at roughly the rate of males?