Forstater judgment tomorrow

[achillestoes]

In case we hadn’t had enough drama.

Good luck, Maya.

faints
^^
^^

@JoodyBlue

I agree. Holding these discussions in a dedicated and civil space has been very powerful. It’s all here as a record as well.

Also mumsnetters are incredibly adept at saying what they want to say by one means or another. It was one of the fascinating aspects of the forum that Sarah Pedersen pointed out in her book.

Oh bugger. I meant to quote the JKR blowing us a kiss post.

I don't go fainting at just anything.

😆

So true. I too thank Mumsnet for this space. The support and factual advice/links has been invaluable.

I am very much in the "radicalised by Mumsnet" camp. I am enormously grateful for this space.

Yeah! To MN and posters, not perfect but here, now. Thank you.

I think mumsnettowers should be incredibly proud of allowing that space.

I also am impressed by MumsNet for making that space. Despite the compromises that has involved, some of which I do find hard to tolerate! Including the frustrating restrictions on language that made it hard to talk accurately and clearly. I agree about the need to "corrall" everything into FWR but I can see why and as things change there's more room to keep information posted in the mainstream groups even if we can't discuss it there.

MumsNet have walked a fine line and I'm impressed with how well they've done to keep discussion alive in very difficult circumstances. And I don't suppose things have got much easier yet, if anything we may still see pushback for quite some time.

Thank you MumsNet Towers!

I stumbled into this bit of "Talk" in the early days of Alison's hearing. I had little/no real idea what had been going on in the corporate world and sport. It's been an eye opener, thank you.

I remember when Sarah Pedersen was interviewed by Selina Todd about the book, that was very entertaining and informative.

BPB?

(Blue Peter Badge)

Anyone looking forward to the glorious moment that Stonewall get taken to court and get pwned?

As a GC woman I get what you mean, but to me it's not a glorious moment. It breaks my heart to see what happened to Stonewall. And it's a dangerous moment. Other organisations are stepping up but it's created a massive split and everyone suffers from that. For all that Stonewall brought it on themselves and left no choice but to take them on, I still couldn't celebrate their destruction with a whole heart.

For so long I kept thinking "do we really have to do all this, couldn't Stonewall just apologise for an almighty fuckup and move on"? I know, how naive can an old lady be! I hadn't realised how entrenched and ingrained the whole thing had become, that there really was an ideology they'd agreed to swallow whole, however barking (and repressive) that ideology was in practice. And now we all pay for it

Sorry for the downer - we should just be celebrating Maya! And I am!

I'm trying to 'listen again' - was this during the Today programme? I can't find it!

Found it now...

Wow - amazing how desperate the presenter was to get away from sport - Maya was simply not allowed to say that a male person is not a woman when competing in sport. Why is that a separate aspect?

Another one radicalised by Mumsnet. I think I saw a twitter hashtag about mountaineering and that led me to a Mumsnet link where I discovered children were being prescribed puberty blockers.
I couldn't believe this was happening.

FWR is the reason I know about it and feel so strongly

I appreciate all the posters who started before I came across it and have continued

Often to verbal attacks

Mumsnetters I think are amazing

MNHQ not so much. The debate happened here in spite of them

@BIWI I'm seriously impressed

@FannyCann I desperately want a 'Radicalised by Mumsnet' t-shirt.

Agree. It is clear that MNHQ discriminate against us on the same basis of 'belief' by preventing expression of that belief (in reality).

Only recently we have been told we must not say 'transwomen are men' even though that is a clear and basic expression of a belief that the court of appeal determined was worthy of respect in a democratic society and as such a protected characteristic. As is the use of the term 'trans identified man'.

Yep, 'trans identified man' is a simple statement of fact, not hateful.

When did it get to the point where women stating what - to them - is obvious fact can be called heresy and bigoted?

At the point where women are not considered equal human beings in society.

In the light of Maya's judgement these statements should be allowed on MN now. They are not hateful and to not allow women to speak about what they see in respectful, factual terms is discriminatory.

Also - if transwomen are not men - what are they transitioning to or away from? No-one can ever answer that.

If TWA literally W there's no need for trans special policies or trans healthcare or any of that, is there?

😁😂

From this article:

"Richard Freedman, employment lawyer and partner at Stephenson Harwood, agreed: “This ruling reinforces the importance for employers of training their staff to respect each other’s views and opinions, promoting diversity in the workplace, and ensuring these measures are reflected in their practices and policies.

“Employers should be clear, however, that while gender-critical views are considered a philosophical belief protected under discrimination law, it does not mean that people with such beliefs can misgender trans persons. Employers need to provide a safe environment free from harassment and discrimination for all employees, including both trans persons and those with gender critical beliefs.”

My bold - there isn't an offence of 'misgendering' is there? Surely nobody can be compelled to say a man is a woman? (which is sometimes called 'misgendering')