Forstater judgment tomorrow

[achillestoes]

In case we hadn’t had enough drama.

Good luck, Maya.

He's got an ology!

I’ve just got off work and am about to tune into PM. Have I missed Evan Davies having conniptions about Maya’s win? Do I need to rewind and listen from the top of the hour?

‘I’ve literally been taught how to read legal writing’.

He makes himself sound like he had a Mr Miyagi or Yoda as a legal writing mentor’ 😂

He's still going ...

'Anyways the funny thing about this is the sheer number of transphobes who genuinely mock A Levels and education in general. We all know why.'

Apart from the headlines, it's all been Boris Johnson so far (live from parliament, a large group of cabinet ministers are waiting to tell him to resign).

I wish the govt would shut up for a minute and let us all hear more about Maya.

It's the second story in the Headlines section now (but the top of the main website page is dominated by the Cabinet Resignations section).

Oh my god 😂

Why would someone more educated than him be mocking education in general? 😂

Just to chime in with my take about this judgment. The most important and crucial point that I can see is the recognition that gender critical beliefs (beliefs like 'you can't change your biological sex', 'trans women are male, and not women', 'being a woman is not a matter of having a mental state' etc) are not inherently bigoted or offensive in and of themselves, and so employers cannot fire someone merely for holding or expressing gender critical beliefs. The essence of freedom to hold a belief is the ability to express it. This is so important because many TRAS were saying things like 'well it's fine to hold gender critical beliefs in private, but the second you talk about them then that's bigoted and you should be fired'. This confirms that we are able to freely express and state that we don't believe trans women are women, while also protecting trans people in that targeted harassment is forbidden. This feels incredibly freeing to me, as I've been told that my mere belief that trans women aren't REALLY women is evil, not worthy of respect, oppressive etc.

If only there was some way Alex could have found out who Sarah was before making a fool of himself.

He wrote that mitochondrial DNA is non-human, I think he meant midichlorians, bless.

Lifestyle isn't a backwater of the Guardian - it's the only bit I read! Because let's face it, after you have scrolled past the commentators Owen Jones, the 'everything in the world is shit' news, what else is there?

A surprisingly straight (no pun intended) report on Maya's victory from Pink News (aside from a misunderstanding of the harassment overlap issue): web.archive.org/web/20220706132727/www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/07/06/maya-forstater-gender-critical-tribunal/

Yes.

Every woman who’s been harassed, silenced, bullied or lost employment because of her gender critical beliefs is freer and safer today, thanks to the warrior that is

@MForstater
🎉
#SexMatters #IStandWithMaya

I think the point was it should be headline news, which it is now.

He's got an ology!

Maureen Lipman. Still funny.

And who, apart from RMW, thinks RMW is the best source of advice on this? Would they not be better off taking advice from Anya Palmer, Ben Cooper, or Peter Daly?

She didn't win all of her points, and that includes not getting her job back.

Stonewall UK released this today on Twitter:

Today's judgement on a well-publicised employment tribunal does not change the reality of trans people's workplace protection.

No-one has the right to discriminate against, or harass, trans people simply because they disagree with their existence and participation in society.

We believe in a world where all LGBTQ+ are free to be ourselves, and have the same opportunities to thrive as everyone else.
That is what we fight for.

Trans people simply want to go about their lives – at school, at work – without discrimination and harassment.

Their lives are worthy of respect.

She didn't win all of her points, and that includes not getting her job back.

Margarita Pie, I know that you have a habit of not comprehending material that you read and to which you even link.

I recommend, however, that you read the Peter Daly and Levin Solicitors links on this thread for an appropriate understanding from legal experts rather than rely upon a dubious and very partial gossip outlet.

Thanks so much for your incisive legal mind @MargaritaPie

As Stonewall aren't lawyers, I'm not entirely sure you should take their position as face value.

Levins Solicitors have put together a very clear brief summary of the decision: twitter.com/levinslaw/status/1544696411106820099?s=21&t=45zNRPZ7FRSJKsRH_4jzCg

Congratulations once again Maya!

🤣🤣IKR?!

Indeed - although trans people's rights weren't at issue in Maya's tribunal. But Stonewall can no longer shut down debate or accuse anyone who publicly states that transwomen are not women of transphobia.

No-one has the right to discriminate against, or harass, trans people

How about lesbians, Stonewall?

No-one has the right to discriminate against, or harass, [gender critical] people simply because they disagree with their existence and participation in society[, the workplace, places of education, places of culture, the marketplace (looking at you, Etsy), academic publishing, or health and social care systems].

Fixed it for Stonewall and many other misguided commenters.

No-one wants to harass anyone. Least of all Maya. The point is that saying 'transwomen aren't women, being a woman isn't a state of mind and this is why it all matters', isn't deemed anything other than a perfectly legitimate belief. Protected in law.

When your company, boss, department, council or political party, says TWAW and you say no they're not and this is why we want single sex toilets, for example, that's perfectly acceptable.

Not bigoted, not transphobic, not wrong.

And you can't shut people down for saying it.