Forstater judgment tomorrow

[achillestoes]

In case we hadn’t had enough drama.

Good luck, Maya.

Just had a message from a friend who works in HR and has been fending off suggestions from well-meaning, uninformed higher management to bring in 'trans' training and pronouns. She is thrilled. She says she's now equipped with heavy weaponry.

I don’t think CGD will appeal

Thank you, Maya.

MarshaBradyo
This is great but reading the previous judgement at the tribunal I was 😮how bad was that

Yes, I remember that so well, it was gutting and demoralizing. I also remember Joanne Rowling's tweet of support a while after the ruling came out. Now it seems like Maya losing the first time was all for the best, at least for us gender critical feminists as a group. It must have been hellish for Maya. Massive admiration and gratitude to her.

I was writing a post about how women in other countries may not have have the same clear protections to fall back on. And with gender belief legislation gone through, which is much harder to pull back. But I won't. Women in the UK have been phenomenal in organising and fighting this stuff. Even the sunlight where the legal fight didn't succeed (Cristina Criado Perez). Standing up for women anywhere is standing up for women everywhere.

Well done Maya and her legal team.

It makes me feel a little braver in my world of work.

Amazing thank you. I was looking at the victimisation points

Wonderful news! Thank you Maya.

It's on the front page of the Guardian app as well.

If I were the Halifax HR and PR departments I'd be having a bit of a shit fit over the implications of this. The timing is rotten (but they should have been aware it was coming).

Also see anyone else who has used Stonewall for advice...
If I were a business who had taken advice off Stonewall, and I got taken to court on the back of the dodgy advice I'd got, I'd be asking some questions and maybe seeking legal advice...
...If I was still be advised by Stonewall, and I had policies in place that could be considered problematic as the result of this ruling, I'd bin them immediately rather than encouraging workplace wide insistance on pronouns.
...If I had quit my job / felt forced out on the basis of Stonewall nonsense after raising concerns, I'd be seeking legal advice.

If I were Stonewall, I'd be looking at alternative fundraising methods to advising organisations as a business model and have the legal team down in the office to see if there might be some fall out that might land back on them.

Question: How does this sit with mandatory work place training and enforced compelled speech over the use of 'woman'?

Oh deary me. What a mess.

Thank you Maya! Like many others we will now be able to challenge, where necessary, within our organisations.

Yes, I just came to say this! They managed to cover it despite all the PMQs kerfuffle

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62061929

Front page BBC.

So, in the light of this, would it be possible for someone at Sex Matters to produce a model response that could be used by anyone asked to give their pronouns at work? Citing this judgment, emphasising the right not to believe in GI, the right to express those beliefs and requesting not to be compelled to participate in it?

That’s amazing, it means I can now confidently say that I am not transphobic in my belief that a man or woman cannot just say they are the opposite sex and that means they are. I’m allowed to express that opinion and it’s protected by law.

Just to correct my earlier post: it wasn’t the phrase ‘man in a dress’ but ‘part time cross dresser’ that formed part of the tweet. To add to my sins I also misgendered the judge who was Judge Andrew Glennie. Note to self - when very excited and happy, slow down before posting!

It's not an opinion. It's hard fact.

Humans can't change sex.

Congrats maya for everything you have done for women.

❤️❤️❤️❤️

She's amazing to have gone through this for so long. We can all be a little braver now because of her!

Well what do trans people think? To me it’s a fact but to them they think they can.

Yes, many people believe it is possible to change sex.

Anyone is free to believe this.

They are not free to force others to believe, or pretend to believe.

It’s a belief in the face of facts. Similarly, it’s a fact the earth is round, but some people persist in believing it’s flat. They’re entitled to hold that belief, they’re not entitled to compel me to believe it too. I might privately think they’re fucking nuts to believe it in the face of all the evidence, which might not be appropriate to say out loud but in a situation where I’m surrounded by flat-earthers, I can say that the earth is round and not be discriminated for saying so.

*discriminated against

Completely agree with you @Cailleach1 ...brava to our UK based sisters, and congrats to Maya. Such bravery has worldwide implications and we are grateful for the leadership.

I wonder if Mumsnet could put the link to the decision in the thread title to save us scrolling back. I just found it here

www.judiciary.uk/judgments/maya-forstater-v-cgd-europe-center-for-global-development-masood-ahmed/