My children being asked their pronouns by youth group leader

[Pronoundisquiet]

My two sons aged 10 and 6 go to a religion school every Saturday. Occasionally they have an outside visit from a youth group affiliated with our religion.
My 10 year old told me that today the youth group leader visited the class. They did a session on their identity and went round the room introducing themselves, saying their name, if they were a boy or a girl, what their pronouns were and what their favourite ice cream was.

Apparently the last time they visited they did the same.

10 year old answered the question, 6 year old apparently just said “I am a boy”

The religion school is run by volunteers not affiliated to the youth group so I want to be mindful what I say. I also want to come up with a more reasoned argument as to why asking 6 year old their pronouns is fucking nonsense other than “this is fucking nonsense”
Can anyone help please?

^ @StanleyBostitch

You may not care what someone else's pronouns are, but they care about their own pronouns. If adjusting your use of pronouns helps someone else feel a little more included in the world, isn't that a good thing to come from a simple act?

Its not a simple act. You are asking kids who haven't even been asked if they consent to being used as a validation prop. If they care about theor pronouns then friends and family if they want can go along with it. Not the job of a bunch of kids you just met though. Not the kids fault if that's not been made clear to them by the adults responsible for caring for the child. And they don't have to bail thise adults out by playing along.

Hello kids! My name is Fred! Can we go around the room and everyone say their name!

mary
jane
john
julie
Dave
etc etc etc

its pretty obvious. My sister was often mistaken for a boy. But a simple ‘what’s your name’ would correct that.

it’s just nonsense and trying to normalise in kids people announcing their pronoun of choice.

Normalising pronoun declarations actively causes harm to women and girls - look up the "stereotype threat".

I was occasionally misgendered as a child due to having short hair and wearing trousers.

It never stopped me wearing trousers or having short hair and I simply concluded that the adult doing it was an idiot. Job done.

If that simple act didn’t have an angry mob behind it demanding it, i’d probably feel more likely to acquiesce

Also my DS was constantly mistaken for a girl: long hair, ambiguous name. I used to correct people until I saw that DS really didn't care, so I stopped correcting people as I didn't want to make it into a "thing" that got DS upset.

He stopped being called a girl when he hit puberty and grew a beard. It was fine.

My daughter is often mistaken for a boy.

She has long curly hair and big eyelashes but she wears football strips a lot therefore she must be a 'boy'.

She just thinks people who make that assumption are stupid and corrects them.

Fortunately she is very self-confident. A less confident child might feel the experience differently.

The only reason to know pronouns is to know how to speak about them when they are not there. But the youth trainer will presumably only be teaching them when they are there?

One underhand reason for doing this is to clock who looks like a boy/girl but gives pronouns that are the opposite - it is a gift to potential groomers to ID vulnerable kids.

If that isn't reason enough to complain about this, I don't know what is.

Me too. :)

No one told me I should expect everyone to correctly gender me. I just found it funny walking along with my brother and having people say "hello boys".

If there are any children who are starting to question their identity but not wanting everyone to know this it puts them on the spot. It’s cruel and unkind, the very opposite of inclusive.

I'd have thought one of the purposes if parents choosing to send their kids to groups that run activities etc is to get kids off the Internet and out if their own heads fir a bit. Interacting with actual humans face to face and working together as a team. Such shame they jusy become yet another place access kids to spread the gender ideology

"their name, if they were a boy or a girl, what their pronouns were and what their favourite ice cream was."

I was just thinking this morning (after an item on the radio supporting the girl guides teaching them there are 57 varieties of gender or whatever) that children are being asked to pick a gender like they're in one of those fancy ice cream or American jelly bean parlours. And again I have to ask myself about the endgame of the people - adults - who are making it their business to go into schools and children's groups with this stuff, because seeing and hearing about the children of family and friends it certainly isn't making these children more comfortable or happy with their bodies, or their relationships with their parents, grandparents or schools.

You can choose your religion.

My comment was in response to a previous poster who said ' I couldn't give a flying fart what someones pronouns are', not in relation to children at a youth group being asked about their pronouns.

It’s a fad - pushed by who? People are just merrily going along with all the fun and glitter and not asking ‘why on earth would we demand people declare their pronouns? Do we demand to know of people are married, vegans or gay?’

@StanleyBostitch
You may not care what someone else's pronouns are, but they care about their own pronouns. If adjusting your use of pronouns helps someone else feel a little more included in the world, isn't that a good thing to come from a simple act?

it’s not a simple act though, it’s the thin end of the wedge.
I was brought up not to refer to a person as he/she in front of them as it’s rude. What’s wrong with saying their actual name?

@Floella22 exactly.

I will say it again that SOME are breeding a generation of narcissists .

asking ppl to declare their pronouns says “I am a person who also believes men are fine and dandy in women a sports, prisons, refuges and in all the programmes designed to increase womens representation in STEM & politics” it is far from a simple and neutral act

Using pronouns is about inclusion and showing respect for gender identity. I honestly don't understand why it's so difficult to use the pronouns that people ask others to use for them. It's like them saying their name is Samantha but they'd prefer it if you called them 'Sam'...or any other name they have adopted as their own.

But no one is obligated to pretend they believe in gender. Kids shouldn't be being encouraged to lie by adults. That's abusive.

Gender identity is a belief system

if someone as an adult wants to believe that men can in some way have an inner female gender identity which makes them exactly the same as a biological woman that’s fine

it’s not fine to impose this belief on children

Stanley.

Can you do me a favour and read this essay, written by a Mumsnetter several years ago and come back and tell us your feelings after reading it.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Its not a simple act... it reinforces the idea that there are a set of stereotypes associated with he or she and if you don't conform to the one that matches your sex you must be trans and therefore must conform to another set of stereotypes. By stating pronouns, you are asking women to identify into their own oppression and layering on the impact of erasing sex based protections. It is not a simple act.

In your position op, I think I would draw a comparison with the youth worker opening the session with a prayer or hymn that doesn't align with your faith / denomination - let's say 'God Bless Our Pope' if you're not Roman Catholic. Or, if you'd prefer a non-religious analogy, with teaching them the words to 'The Red Flag' or all 6 verses of 'God Save The Queen' without checking with parents first.