Department for Education leaves Stonewall

[yourhairiswinterfire]

Breaking: DFE has left Stonewall

"we do not feel it provides value for money for the service it provides and we shared concerns across government about the charity's stance on free speech"

twitter.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1541474620712407040

Not sure this post could be anymore hyperbolic or full of misinformation. And it is just one sentence.

I’m not extremely right wing. Infact I’m not right wing I’m more middle straying towards left and Labour. But I’m passionate about protecting women’s rights. If that means I’m cheering because stonewall has been kicked out of schools so be it. When Labour can define a penis person properly then I will look to them again. Until then I’m in the wilderness but supporting my sex.

Stonewall has nothing to do with being left wing. Being left wing is about an analysis of how resources are divided between richer and poorer people. The women being denied single sex services are poor as well as rich: they don’t give a fuck about them. The women trying to optimise their lives through sport are poor as well as rich: they don’t give a fuck about them. The women being told to STFU because their ‘freedom of speech’ isn’t important are poor as well as rich: once again, they don’t give a fuck about them.

If be concerned about Global Butterflies being an alternative. It's ran by two men who call themselves lesbians. One is ex army and stopped transitioning as couldn't get a job as a transwoman. When a job was secured continued with transition. I think if you can pop in out if your identity when it suits you it's not a great look. Also quite well off as has had a lot if facial feminisation surgery. When challenged in QA on non binary got aggressive and dismissive.

I'm an ex auditor for government DfE contracts. Among other things...

How I would LOVE to be going over DfE contracted DEI spend and seeing how much was actually spent on inclusion of under represented groups, and not on excluding females.

So many spreadsheets...

And equally weird given that this government is doing more than any other party has said they would to make the EA2010 stronger - unlike Scotland, for example.

Maybe there is a mix up and @antifascist is referring to the plans to override power of human rights court? That's a discussion worth having, calmly. And I am not sure any of us would either agree or disagree with all that is being proposed. So there'll be no kneejerk "Boris is an evil cunt" from me. I want to read more of the actual proposals, not journalistic endeavours to translate them!

Yes, the Human Rights Act being replaced by a Bill of Rights raises other issues. It probably has some relevance to the Higher Education Freedom of Speech Bill, because the HRA is so broad that it interacts with nearly everything at the margins of the law. But the same people jumping up and down about the HRA and the ECHR are the people putting inverted commas round ‘freedom of speech’ - Article 10 of the ECHR guarantees it. So obviously they don’t really give a shit about human rights. They just look for a legal situation that favours their extremist politics.

Great news. Eagerly awaiting confirmation.

Not sure why that PP thinks defending women's rights is dependant on whether you are to the left or to the right of politics. Women make up 51% of all human beings, surely some diversity is to be expected. But I suspect actual diversity (of opinion for example) is not their strong suit.

Appalling hyperbole.

Stonewall is a lobby group. That is an entirely legitimate thing for it to do as part of its charitable objects.

No government department should be in hoc to any lobby group for approval or advice on what the law actually says. Not Stonewall, not Sex Matters, not Global Butterflies, not FPFW - none of them. Lobby groups and Government must be independent of each other, otherwise you get the present mess where issues are not being properly debated and situations are arising where the wider impact on people who hold protected characteristics has not been properly considered.

This isn't smashing equality legislation - this is applying equality legislation fairly taking into account the competing interests of different groups.

The DofE are distancing themselves from an increasingly extreme and unreasonable organisation at the behest no doubt hundreds of concerned parents, guardians and teachers of all and perhaps even no political backgrounds!

If be concerned about Global Butterflies being an alternative

That was just speculation on Twitter wasn’t it? Other orgs that dumped Stonewall went to them, but I’d be surprised if they did here, given the pointed emphasis on free speech.

The problem is (as we saw in the Bailey case) that decisions about joining HR and EDI initiatives that have massive ramifications on whole institutions are often taken by people of relatively low authority. This shields both the decision from scrutiny (it flies under the radar) and often the most senior people from accountability. They just say they didn’t know (often they didn’t).

Ministers need to start (and they are starting) to issue instructions saying no schemes of this nature without their personal sign off.

I was once you, relatively recently infact. You think the obvious ritousness of left wing ideas is enough, and you dont need to bother with details, or even facts that contradict your idology.
As someone who has been where you are, I am telling you, seriously, you really really DO need to SERIOUSLY engage with opposing arguments.
If you have any commitment to the commons in society then you really really need to realise the current 'left' desperatly need to look critically at themselfs and engage with what you call the 'culture war' and LISTEN to what people are desperatly trying to tell you.

A really good place to start would be to read through some of the threads on this board.

Tim Loughton asked a series of written questions of a lot of (all??) government departments. I think it's Diversity Role Models that there was understandable concern about as regard child safeguarding - because of the "love has no age limit" story:

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/06/18/love-has-no-age-a-letter-to-asda/

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/asda-sparks-furious-paedo-backlash-22201608

IIRC, it was just after this that the NAHT chose DRM as their charity:

https://www.naht.org.uk/About-Us/Organisations-we-support/Diversity-Role-Models

But there's no date on that link and my recollection could be incorrect.

Loughton asked a question about the due diligence that DfE carried out before working with DRM:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-01-25/111478

(Not sure the due diligence question was strictly answered...)

You can search all the written questions here and I don't think the DfE had paid Global Butterflies but have a look:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk

This is the Diversity Role Models answer for the DfE:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-12-16/94270/

"£187,530.00 grant funding for the period from 10 August to 31 March 2022 [and] payment of £57,057.45 in April 2016 and were provided with £131,231.25 to as part of... 2019-20"

Saw a headline years ago about the First Pregnant Man.
Assumed it was some bizarre and alarming experiment.
But it was just a woman who ID’d as a man.

Completely misleading and making a story out of nothing.

Exactly. There are huge problems once lobby groups start flexing their muscles and assuming rightly or wrongly that they can exert control over legislative bodies to change peoples mindset about social issues. Stonewall has done it here, the gun lobby has done it in the US. Next thing the tobacco industry will be advising on health issues and telling us to be kind to smokers because they only want to live their authentic lives and allowing them in to share our smoke free indoor spaces is the kind thing to do.

Where? Can you point to any examples of it here?

Are you possibly taking some statements of fact as being abusive, such as when people say that trans women should not be allowed in female spaces?

I do love conspiracy theories, and those who believe in them, it’s fascinating from a psychological perspective.

This silly idea that there’s a cabal who want to take away women’s right to employment; did you come up with it yourself, or is it someone else’s view that you are repeating?

Please don't derail the thread, it's against Talk guidelines. This thread is about the DfE and Stonewall.

I often appreciate the unintentional hilarity of those obsessed with challenging women and facts on here. It not only keeps interesting threads bumped but it allows so many intelligent and articulate posters to expose the shallowness of those who insights are limited to borrowed political slogans.

As a few other posters have asked, has this been officially confirmed yet?

Under partiality rules teachers aren't even allowed to be critical of Boris or Starmer.

The hyperbole about this being a "disaster" is bollocks.

Not only left Stonewall but kicked them in the balls on the way out! They could have gone with a mealy mouthed 'value for money' but they didn't.

I haven’t seen this reported anywhere yet - is it definitely confirmed?